IETF
rtcweb@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, 12 June 2012< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: RTCWEB WG http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/agenda
Room Configuration

GMT+0
[06:38:41] Spencer Dawkins joins the room
[06:41:11] Neil Stratford joins the room
[06:51:22] burn joins the room
[06:54:36] dontcallmedom@jabber.no joins the room
[06:58:44] Cullen Jennings joins the room
[06:59:45] <Cullen Jennings> uh that link does not seem like right one
[07:01:32] bernard.aboba joins the room
[07:02:50] <bernard.aboba> I'm hearing Magnus, Cullen, and some room noises... I assume things are just getting started w/respect to the bluesheets, etc.?
[07:02:54] Ted Hardie joins the room
[07:03:45] <bernard.aboba> We can only hear Magnus on the WebEx... not the hangout folks.
[07:06:21] Martin Thomson joins the room
[07:06:45] <burn> I will be jabber relay. If you want something relayed to the mic, precede your comment with "MIC: "
[07:06:53] <bernard.aboba> We could hear Cullen, yes.
[07:07:00] <Cullen Jennings> thanks
[07:07:51] hta joins the room
[07:08:57] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[07:09:27] <Martin Thomson> notes: http://piratepad.net/we67J3ibxN
[07:10:31] EKR joins the room
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[07:11:43] <Martin Thomson> Proceedings: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/12/rtcweb/proceedings.html
[07:11:59] tterribe leaves the room
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[07:12:58] tterribe leaves the room
[07:13:30] <burn> Current slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/12/rtcweb/slides/slides-interim-2012-rtcweb-2-2.pdf
[07:13:41] <EKR > so this still doesn't seem to contain the agenda….
[07:13:59] <burn> EKR: no, not yet
[07:14:03] <burn> on slide "New reqs"
[07:14:03] tterribe joins the room
[07:14:04] <Martin Thomson> video is really crappy
[07:14:29] tterribe leaves the room
[07:15:09] <burn> martin: resolution, update speed, or what?
[07:15:09] <EKR > yeah, it's weird
[07:15:15] <EKR > a lot of pixellation.
[07:15:17] <burn> on slide "Proposed use-cases not added"
[07:15:30] <EKR > stefan seems to be out of focus too
[07:15:36] <burn> on slide "Call center use case"
[07:15:46] tterribe joins the room
[07:15:59] tterribe leaves the room
[07:16:44] <burn> on slide "Enterprise policy related UCs"
[07:16:55] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 1"
[07:17:33] <Ted Hardie> Chair Slides/Agenda—now reloaded (Turns out you cannot use pdf for an agenda, only text or html. Who knew?)
[07:18:28] tterribe joins the room
[07:18:29] tterribe leaves the room
[07:18:44] <burn> Agenda is at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/12/rtcweb/agenda/agenda-interim-2012-rtcweb-2.txt
[07:20:44] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 2"
[07:20:53] <burn> back to "Enterprise 1"
[07:22:03] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 2"
[07:22:31] tterribe joins the room
[07:22:35] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 3"
[07:22:59] tterribe leaves the room
[07:23:19] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[07:24:01] <burn> speaking: Randell Jesup
[07:24:12] <burn> speaking: Justin
[07:24:21] <burn> speaking: Martin
[07:24:42] <burn> (uncontrolled speaking, so will no longer type all names ;) )
[07:25:11] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[07:25:22] <EKR > I think this is basically something that has to happen via some enterprise policy push
[07:25:29] <EKR > Like A-D policy push
[07:25:42] <burn> back to slide "Enterprise 1"
[07:26:40] <burn> richard: don't want to limit this to QoS selection
[07:26:51] <burn> … eg on LTE device
[07:26:57] aboba@jabber.org joins the room
[07:27:17] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 3"
[07:29:14] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[07:29:45] alan.b.johnston joins the room
[07:31:16] <Cullen Jennings> q is empty
[07:32:36] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 4"
[07:32:56] <EKR > q+
[07:33:13] <EKR > q-
[07:33:36] <Cullen Jennings> eric has mic
[07:33:46] tterribe joins the room
[07:33:48] <EKR > No, I was out of q.
[07:33:51] <EKR > I think we should not add this.
[07:33:59] tterribe leaves the room
[07:34:09] <EKR > q+
[07:34:10] tterribe joins the room
[07:34:29] tterribe leaves the room
[07:34:39] <burn> on slide "Enterprise 5"
[07:34:44] <aboba@jabber.org> Agree with EKR -- can handle via signalling.
[07:35:20] mreavy joins the room
[07:35:25] <burn> on slide "Low complex central node for multiparty"
[07:35:28] <EKR > I suggest we use zakim conventions here.
[07:35:30] Charles Eckel joins the room
[07:35:31] tterribe joins the room
[07:35:35] <EKR > q+ is add to queue, q- is remove :)
[07:35:59] tterribe leaves the room
[07:36:14] <Justin Uberti> q+
[07:36:55] <hta> q+ (also jumping up)
[07:37:14] tterribe joins the room
[07:37:49] <burn> on slide "Multiparty central node that is not able to decrypt media"
[07:38:47] <burn> on slide "WebEx-like service enabling co-op between organizations without access to un-encrypted media"
[07:39:30] <hta> I think this is the same as the previous scenario.
[07:39:37] <burn> on slide "Comment"
[07:39:46] <Justin Uberti> q+
[07:39:48] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[07:40:58] <Ted Hardie> two in local q
[07:41:04] <aboba@jabber.org> Why have the third party if it can't mix??
[07:41:18] <burn> Bernard: for the mic?
[07:41:45] <hta> This scenario is based on an RTP Transport relay.
[07:42:46] <hta> Sorry, RTP Translator.
[07:42:52] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[07:43:34] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[07:44:04] <burn> speaking Cullen Jennings
[07:45:27] <burn> speaking: Roni Even
[07:46:25] <EKR > q+
[07:46:33] <Ted Hardie> Okay, see you
[07:47:00] <burn> speaking: Eric Rescorla (EKR)
[07:47:33] <burn> speaking: Magnus
[07:47:44] <Martin Thomson> scribe can't hear the chairs
[07:47:57] <Martin Thomson> thanks
[07:48:08] <Ted Hardie> Can you hear now
[07:48:09] <Martin Thomson> scribe wants ekr to stfu too
[07:48:56] <burn> speaking: EKR
[07:49:04] <burn> speaking: Stefan
[07:49:11] <burn> speaking: Cullen
[07:49:21] <EKR > q+
[07:49:34] <burn> speaking: EKR
[07:50:16] <burn> speaking: Magnus Westerlund
[07:50:54] <burn> speaking: Stefan
[07:51:07] <burn> on slide "Multiparty …"
[07:51:19] <burn> on slide "Proposed way forward"
[07:51:32] <burn> on slide "Items for discussion"
[07:52:08] <burn> on slide "Priority / QoS"
[07:53:12] <Martin Thomson> q+
[07:53:23] <aboba@jabber.org> Mic: is priority purely from a QoS marking point of view or is this also a cc reqt?
[07:53:23] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[07:53:49] <burn> aboba, you're next (channeled by me)
[07:53:59] <Cullen Jennings> @bernard - "cc reqt" what do you mean
[07:54:11] <Justin Uberti> q+
[07:54:17] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[07:54:23] <aboba@jabber.org> Congestion control - which streams take the hit
[07:54:33] <jesup> q+
[07:55:01] <aboba@jabber.org> So this is an API reqt??
[07:55:06] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[07:55:29] <Cullen Jennings> q is cullen, justin, jesup
[07:56:15] <Cullen Jennings> oops q is justin, cullen, jesup
[07:56:25] <burn> cullen, second is correct
[07:56:29] <burn> justin was first :)
[07:56:46] <Ted Hardie> q+
[07:57:24] <burn> q is justin, cullen, jesup, ted
[07:57:45] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[07:58:08] <burn> q is cullen, randell, ted, harald
[07:58:13] <Cullen Jennings> q+ hta
[07:59:19] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[07:59:40] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[07:59:53] <Ted Hardie> +stefan
[08:00:11] <burn> q is cullen, randell, ted, harald, stefan, richard
[08:00:18] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[08:02:11] <burn> speaking: Randell Jesup
[08:02:27] dimartini joins the room
[08:02:31] <burn> q is Ted, Harald, Stefan, Richard
[08:02:58] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[08:03:10] <burn> speaking: Randell Jesup
[08:03:45] <burn> speaking: Ted Hardie
[08:04:37] <jesup> ted++
[08:04:52] sal joins the room
[08:04:57] <Cullen Jennings> well, a large percentage of home NAT/routers supports this
[08:05:21] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[08:05:38] <burn> q is Stefan, Richard
[08:06:23] <Ted Hardie> Lots of gear supports this in the enterprise space, but that is very different from "is configured to honor it".
[08:06:39] <burn> speaking: Stefan Håkansson
[08:07:21] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[08:10:43] <burn> on slide "Mobility"
[08:11:00] aboba@jabber.org leaves the room
[08:11:06] <burn> speaking: Magnus (summarizing)
[08:11:58] Anant joins the room
[08:12:21] <Martin Thomson> notes: http://piratepad.net/we67J3ibxN
[08:12:27] <burn> speaking: Jonathon Lennox
[08:12:56] <burn> sorry, Jonathan Lennox
[08:13:46] <burn> speaking: Stefan
[08:13:52] <burn> back to Jonathan
[08:13:58] <burn> and Stefan
[08:14:00] <burn> and Jonathan
[08:14:01] bernard.aboba leaves the room
[08:14:33] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[08:14:40] <burn> ack Cullen
[08:14:52] <burn> q+ Harald
[08:15:00] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[08:15:55] <Martin Thomson> q+
[08:16:06] <Justin Uberti> q+
[08:16:14] <EKR > q+
[08:16:35] <Ted Hardie> Harald, Martin, Jonathan, Justin, ekr
[08:16:37] <burn> q is Harald, Jonathan, Martin, Justin, Markus
[08:16:42] <burn> then EKR
[08:16:50] <burn> (was typing in the q list)
[08:16:52] <Ted Hardie> okay
[08:17:59] <Ted Hardie> AFter ekr is lars, then Charles, then q end
[08:18:00] <burn> q is Harald, Jonathan, Martin, Justin, Markus, Lars, Richard
[08:18:48] <EKR > burn: you seem to have lost me. apparently I am after Markus
[08:19:08] <burn> oops. will fix
[08:19:19] <Ted Hardie> q end was chair cutting line
[08:19:38] <burn> q is Martin, Justin, Markus, EKR, Lars, Richard, <end>
[08:20:25] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[08:21:33] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[08:21:54] <burn> q is Markus, EKR, Lars, Richard, <end>
[08:22:07] <hta> tech note: if something weird happens in hangouts land (like when we lost slides), lease make a note here. It helps preserve the timestamp.
[08:23:01] Anant leaves the room
[08:23:14] tuexen joins the room
[08:23:29] Anant joins the room
[08:23:33] <Ted Hardie> Action Request: Please +1 if you have followed any of the MIF work in the IETF (including reading the problem statement or RFC 6419)
[08:24:10] <Martin Thomson> request to ted: speak up
[08:24:24] <burn> speaking: Markus Isomaki
[08:26:25] <burn> speaking: Eric Rescorla (EKR)
[08:26:53] <Ted Hardie> I you use make-before-break, aren't you likely to be using mobile IP, which means you will get a different set of characteristics, but stable topology past the end of the tunnel?
[08:29:32] <burn> speaking: Lars Eggert
[08:31:33] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[08:34:21] <Cullen Jennings> @ted: all IPv6 devices MUST implement LISP and it will solve everything :-)
[08:45:19] lepinski joins the room
[08:49:17] <Ted Hardie> @cullen You mis-spelled ILNP.
[08:52:02] <Ted Hardie> We will restart now-ish, so get ready
[08:53:46] <burn> +1 LISP
[08:54:13] <burn> on slide "UDP blocking NATs"
[08:54:16] <Justin Uberti> +q
[08:54:26] <burn> speaking: Justing Uberti
[08:55:25] <Cullen Jennings> q +
[08:55:30] <Martin Thomson> q+
[08:55:33] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[08:55:38] <burn> q Cullen, Martin
[08:56:10] <Justin Uberti> +q
[08:56:22] <burn> q Cullen, Martin, Justin
[08:56:35] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[08:57:19] <burn> speaking: Martin Thompson
[08:57:32] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[08:57:41] <Martin Thomson> s/Thompson/Thomson/g
[08:58:02] <EKR > q+
[08:58:12] <burn> speaking: Eric Rescorla (EKR)
[08:58:15] <burn> sorry Martin
[08:58:52] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[08:58:58] <burn> back to EKR
[08:59:02] <burn> and Justin
[08:59:18] <burn> speaking: Ted Hardie
[08:59:44] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[09:00:40] <Cullen Jennings> put myself after lenox
[09:00:45] <burn> speaking Magnus
[09:01:04] <burn> q Jonathan, Cullen,
[09:01:13] <Justin Uberti> q
[09:01:25] <burn> was that a q+, justin?
[09:01:40] <Justin Uberti> q+
[09:01:43] <burn> q Cullen, Justin
[09:01:52] <Ted Hardie> Harald is in q as well
[09:02:11] <Ted Hardie> I think after Cullen, before Justin
[09:02:15] <burn> i saw him come up but don't see him
[09:02:27] <Ted Hardie> He's on the other side of Jonathan
[09:02:39] <burn> q Cullen, Harald, Justin, Richard
[09:02:40] <Martin Thomson> q+
[09:02:47] <burn> he was hiding from me
[09:02:52] <Cullen Jennings> could the camera be panned a bit so we can see mic lineup on hangouts
[09:03:12] <burn> q Cullen, Harald, Justin, Richard, Martin
[09:03:40] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[09:03:46] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[09:03:49] <Ted Hardie> Let me know if that helped
[09:04:11] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[09:04:25] <burn> q Justin, Richard, Martin, Cullen
[09:05:49] <burn> q Justin, Martin, Cullen, Jonathan
[09:06:19] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[09:06:43] Neil Stratford leaves the room
[09:07:21] <burn> speaking: Martin Thomson
[09:07:22] Neil Stratford joins the room
[09:07:39] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[09:07:39] <Cullen Jennings> q- : removing myself from Q
[09:07:49] <burn> q Jonathan
[09:07:52] <EKR > q+
[09:07:58] <burn> speaking: Martin and Justin
[09:08:04] <burn> q Jonathan, EKR
[09:08:25] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[09:09:34] <burn> speaking: Eric Rescorla (EKR)
[09:11:16] <burn> speaking: Andy Hutton
[09:12:13] <burn> answering: Ted Hardie
[09:13:24] <burn> Switching to: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/12/rtcweb/slides/slides-interim-2012-rtcweb-2-0.pptx
[09:13:32] <burn> Presenter: Magnus Westerlund
[09:14:44] <burn> On slide "Goals"
[09:15:08] <burn> On slide 4, "Outline"
[09:15:19] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[09:15:26] <burn> back to slide 3, "Goals"
[09:16:21] <burn> On slide 4, "Outline"
[09:17:04] <burn> We are discussing how best to adjust the microphones
[09:17:42] <burn> On slide 5, "Definitions"
[09:19:20] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[09:21:08] <burn> On slide 6, "WebRTC API"
[09:22:10] <Justin Uberti> +q
[09:22:27] <Ted Hardie> Okay
[09:22:29] <burn> q Justin
[09:23:09] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[09:23:18] <burn> (previous speaker was Cullen Jennings)
[09:23:44] <burn> speaking: Adam
[09:25:03] <burn> Speaking
[09:25:05] <burn> : cullen jennings
[09:26:05] <burn> (and others)
[09:26:21] <Ted Hardie> Roni in q
[09:26:30] <burn> speaking: EKR
[09:26:36] <burn> speaking: Roni Even
[09:27:31] burn leaves the room
[09:28:31] burn joins the room
[09:29:02] <burn> Roni Even again
[09:29:28] <burn> q Richard
[09:30:27] <burn> on slide 7, "WebRTC API"
[09:32:06] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[09:32:39] <Ted Hardie> harald in q
[09:32:41] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[09:35:53] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[09:36:54] <burn> speaking: Roni Even
[09:37:41] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[09:38:15] <burn> (Jonathan says "it's not quite the same")
[09:38:35] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[09:39:39] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[09:40:39] <burn> speaking: Anant Narayanan
[09:41:37] dimartinii joins the room
[09:43:05] <burn> q Colin, Jonathan
[09:43:42] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[09:44:23] <burn> q Jonathan, Richard
[09:44:33] dimartini leaves the room: Disconnected: connection closed
[09:44:36] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[09:45:33] <burn> q Anant, Richard
[09:45:51] <burn> speaking: Ted Hardie from the front
[09:45:58] <burn> (channeled by Jonathan)
[09:46:41] <burn> speaking: Anant Narayanan
[09:47:57] <Cullen Jennings> +1 anant
[09:48:21] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[09:48:27] <Martin Thomson> +1 anant
[09:49:24] <burn> (back to the slide, #7)
[09:49:52] <Neil Stratford> We've lost the slides in hangouts again.
[09:51:18] <burn> speaking: Martin Thomson
[09:51:34] <burn> on slide 8, "Topologies"
[09:51:39] <Neil Stratford> Thanks for fixing the slides - back now.
[09:51:49] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[09:53:09] <burn> On slide 9, "Topologies"
[09:53:58] <burn> On slide 10, "Point to Point"
[09:55:17] <burn> On slide 11, "Multi-Unicast (MESH)"
[09:55:59] <burn> (I am stepping away for a minute - brb)
[09:57:35] <tterribe> On slide 12, "Mixers"
[09:57:36] <Cullen Jennings> On slide 12, "Mixers"
[09:58:09] <burn> (I'm back)
[09:58:30] <burn> On slide 13, "Media Mixer"
[10:00:16] sal leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[10:01:04] Anant leaves the room
[10:01:34] <burn> On slide 14, "Stream Switching"
[10:01:39] Anant joins the room
[10:03:34] tterribe leaves the room
[10:03:38] <burn> On slide 15, "Source Projection"
[10:03:44] <burn> back to 14
[10:03:47] <Ted Hardie> Roni to mic
[10:03:49] <burn> speaking: Roni Even
[10:04:09] <burn> on to slide 15
[10:05:55] <burn> speaking: Cullen Jennings
[10:06:41] <burn> speaking: Justin Uberti
[10:07:30] <burn> On slide 16, "Relay (Transport Translator)"
[10:09:58] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[10:10:40] <burn> speaking: Richard Ejzak
[10:11:12] <Ted Hardie> +jonathan
[10:11:20] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[10:11:25] <burn> q Roni Even
[10:12:16] <burn> speaking: Roni Even
[10:12:39] <burn> q Colin
[10:13:22] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[10:15:00] <jesup> q+
[10:15:09] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox
[10:15:12] <burn> q Jesup
[10:15:19] <burn> q Jesup, Colin
[10:16:15] <burn> speaking: Randell Jesup
[10:16:25] <burn> q Colin, Harald
[10:16:37] <burn> q Colin, Jonathan, Harald
[10:17:20] <burn> speaking: Colin Perkins
[10:18:21] <burn> speaking: Jonathan Lennox and Colin Perkins
[10:20:26] <burn> speaking: Harald Alvestrand
[10:20:57] <Cullen Jennings> we are not hearing anything
[10:21:02] <Cullen Jennings> can you hear me now
[10:21:04] <burn> we have lost power here
[10:21:11] <burn> our laptops all lost power
[10:21:16] <Jonathan Lennox> Most of ours
[10:21:16] <EKR > dear people on the other side, we cannot jhear you
[10:21:22] hta leaves the room
[10:21:24] <Ted Hardie> we lost power
[10:21:27] <burn> so we think it is affecting the mics as wel
[10:21:29] <Ted Hardie> can you hear them now
[10:21:34] hta joins the room
[10:21:39] <Martin Thomson> I'm sure that Harald's comments were pithy and sage
[10:21:55] <Ted Hardie> Harald: the stats proposal goes for ssrcs
[10:22:04] <jesup> The low quality has reduced the video quality
[10:22:05] <Ted Hardie> And so this topology that does not matter to that.
[10:22:13] <jesup> low power
[10:22:14] <Jonathan Lennox> Harald: the stats proposal goes per ssrcs, therefore it expects the reports to come from one endpoint.
[10:22:24] <burn> we will take a lunch break and attempt to fix power
[10:22:51] <Martin Thomson> we got a burst of audio brifly
[10:23:02] <burn> we will return in 65 minutes
[10:23:16] hta leaves the room
[10:23:45] EKR leaves the room
[10:23:49] alan.b.johnston leaves the room
[10:23:54] EKR joins the room
[10:23:55] EKR leaves the room
[10:25:06] EKR joins the room
[10:31:26] EKR leaves the room
[10:31:32] Justin Uberti leaves the room
[11:00:22] tuexen leaves the room
[11:12:04] Anant leaves the room
[11:23:57] Martin Thomson leaves the room
[11:26:20] Justin Uberti joins the room
[11:26:42] dontcallmedom@jabber.no leaves the room
[11:26:49] EKR joins the room
[11:29:12] tterribe joins the room
[11:29:34] tterribe leaves the room
[11:30:15] Martin Thomson joins the room
[11:30:56] dontcallmedom joins the room
[11:31:15] <Jonathan Lennox> I am Jabber relay for the afternoon
[11:31:17] alan.b.johnston joins the room
[11:33:00] tterribe joins the room
[11:33:05] tterribe leaves the room
[11:35:37] Anant Narayanan joins the room
[11:36:24] <EKR > who is talking?
[11:36:47] <EKR > q+
[11:36:49] <Ted Hardie> Richard Ejzak was the question
[11:36:49] tterribe joins the room
[11:36:56] <Ted Hardie> q is Jonathan, ekr
[11:37:05] tterribe leaves the room
[11:37:30] <Ted Hardie> q is ekr, hta
[11:39:07] <Justin Uberti> +q
[11:39:41] <Jonathan Lennox> Is the mic queue visible from hangouts?
[11:39:54] tterribe joins the room
[11:39:57] <Justin Uberti> no, alas
[11:39:58] <Ted Hardie> They can see the mic line, but that's all
[11:40:05] tterribe leaves the room
[11:40:05] <Ted Hardie> That's why I have to say it out loud
[11:43:42] Cullen Jennings leaves the room
[11:43:57] tterribe joins the room
[11:44:20] Cullen Jennings joins the room
[11:44:21] hta joins the room
[11:46:11] <Martin Thomson> q+
[11:46:28] <Martin Thomson> this is completely unintelligible to us here
[11:46:33] <EKR > that was totally incomprehensible
[11:46:47] <EKR > I don't even know who that was.
[11:46:53] <Ted Hardie> partha, from the webex
[11:47:21] <jesup> Can someone transcribe the previous comment? We coulnd't understand the audio
[11:48:07] <Ted Hardie> Adam is in q
[11:48:29] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[11:48:37] <Ted Hardie> okay
[11:48:46] <Martin Thomson> q+
[11:48:50] <Ted Hardie> Cullen, Andy, Martin
[11:49:06] <Ted Hardie> Andy, Martin, Ted
[11:49:12] <Justin Uberti> q+
[11:49:23] <Ted Hardie> Andy, Martin, Ted, Justin
[11:50:12] <Ted Hardie> Partha transcribes his comment: Parthasarathi R
1:49 PM
SIPREC SDP (record attribute) shall be used to indicate that recording is happening
[11:50:34] <Ted Hardie> martin, Ted, Justin, Jonathan
[11:50:52] <Ted Hardie> Jonatha q-
[11:52:28] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[11:52:28] dontcallmedom joins the room
[11:54:47] <Martin Thomson> q+
[11:54:57] <Martin Thomson> after colin
[11:55:17] <EKR > q+
[11:55:27] <Ted Hardie> colin, martin, ekr
[11:58:32] <Martin Thomson> easy: SVC
[11:58:48] <Ted Hardie> Are you asking to be put in q?
[11:58:48] <Justin Uberti> +q
[11:58:53] <Martin Thomson> no
[11:58:58] <Ted Hardie> okay, Justin in q
[11:59:02] <Martin Thomson> I know how to use q
[11:59:13] <Jonathan Lennox> Martin: good in a lot of cases, not so much for VP8 and H.264 simulcast.
[11:59:15] hta leaves the room
[11:59:31] hta joins the room
[11:59:44] <Ted Hardie> Justin, then Richard
[12:00:26] <EKR > q+
[12:00:30] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[12:00:35] <Ted Hardie> Richard, then ekr, then cullen
[12:00:50] <jesup> q+
[12:01:03] <Ted Hardie> richard,ekr, cullen, randell
[12:01:16] hta leaves the room
[12:01:17] hta joins the room
[12:02:51] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[12:02:52] dontcallmedom joins the room
[12:03:19] <jesup> sync/async is justin/cullen, maybe a likee ekr
[12:03:25] <jesup> never mind
[12:05:44] <Ted Hardie> cullen, randell, hta
[12:09:55] <Ted Hardie> hta, andy
[12:09:59] <Justin Uberti> +q
[12:10:04] <Ted Hardie> andy, justin
[12:11:29] <Ted Hardie> andy, justin, ted
[12:14:29] dimartinii leaves the room: Disconnected: connection closed
[12:14:35] Justin Uberti leaves the room
[12:14:54] <Martin Thomson> q+
[12:15:56] dimartinii joins the room
[12:16:57] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[12:16:59] dontcallmedom joins the room
[12:18:17] <Martin Thomson> ls
[12:19:01] Justin Uberti joins the room
[12:23:34] <Ted Hardie> q= colin, cullen
[12:23:45] tuexen joins the room
[12:23:48] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen
[12:24:07] <tuexen> Is the audio working?
[12:24:19] <Ted Hardie> Are you listening on hangouts or webex?
[12:24:30] <tuexen> Webex. Just called in...
[12:24:38] <Ted Hardie> It has been.
[12:24:48] <tuexen> It was tis morning...
[12:25:04] <Ted Hardie> Can you hear cullen?
[12:25:09] <tuexen> No.
[12:25:22] <Ted Hardie> Any other folks on webex also in the jabber?
[12:25:22] <tuexen> I do see the video stuff.
[12:26:19] <Ted Hardie> I think it is on your side.
[12:26:36] <tuexen> OK. Let me dial in again.
[12:26:37] <Ted Hardie> Can you try to log in to webex again?
[12:28:32] <tuexen> I did, same result.
[12:29:05] <tuexen> I can try to dial in manually (up to now, I used the callback functionality).
[12:31:20] <tuexen> That doesn't work either (Calling the number in Germany).
[12:31:52] <Ted Hardie> Can you coordinate with Cullen via direct IM?
[12:32:22] <jesup> tuexen: contact im@fluffy.im
[12:32:38] <Ted Hardie> we hear you
[12:33:10] <lepinski> Webex audio was working for me this morning, but no longer is
[12:33:12] <Neil Stratford> The slides have disappeared from the Hangout.
[12:33:23] <Ted Hardie> We can hear you
[12:33:25] <Ted Hardie> both
[12:33:28] <burn> The media room in Kista can hear you two talking
[12:33:29] <Jonathan Lennox> Everyone in the meeting room in Kista can hear you both
[12:33:37] <Martin Thomson> everyone in the world can hear you
[12:33:38] <burn> ALLLLLLL OF US CAN HEAR YOU
[12:33:38] <jesup> And boston
[12:34:11] <tuexen> OK. So the problem is uni-directional...
[12:34:45] <tuexen> Yes.
[12:34:47] <lepinski> Yes
[12:34:59] <tuexen> Thank you.
[12:35:33] roni_even joins the room
[12:37:13] <Ted Hardie> q: richard
[12:37:24] <jesup> q+ Boston
[12:37:25] <Cullen Jennings> does anyone see this ?
[12:37:32] <Ted Hardie> q: richard, Boston
[12:37:37] <Ted Hardie> Yes, cullen, we see you
[12:37:45] <Cullen Jennings> thanks
[12:38:13] <Ted Hardie> Jesup, were you in q?
[12:38:44] <jesup> Yes, the entire room
[12:39:03] <Ted Hardie> Okay, we tried to go over to you, but didn't hear you.
[12:39:14] <Ted Hardie> you're in q now
[12:42:19] <Martin Thomson> q+ boston
[12:42:19] dontcallmedom leaves the room
[12:43:15] <EKR > q+
[12:44:10] <Martin Thomson> q- boston
[12:44:15] <Cullen Jennings> Q: ekr
[12:44:32] <Justin Uberti> q+
[12:44:38] <Cullen Jennings> q: ekr, justin,
[12:46:45] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[12:46:55] <Martin Thomson> q+
[12:47:43] <jesup> cullen++ from me
[12:47:43] <Cullen Jennings> q is martin, lenox
[12:47:59] <Cullen Jennings> sorry we have the floor camera sort of small here so I missed when Jonatahn walked up
[12:48:18] <Cullen Jennings> If someone else in the room wants to take over floor control, that would be great
[12:48:32] <Ted Hardie> I can do it again, now that I am back
[12:48:35] <Cullen Jennings> thanks
[12:48:39] <Ted Hardie> q is lenox, magnus
[12:49:24] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[12:49:33] <Justin Uberti> +q
[12:49:42] <Ted Hardie> q is magnus, cullen, justin, roni
[12:49:50] <Ted Hardie> +hta
[12:49:58] <Ted Hardie> magnus, cullen, justin, roni, harald
[12:51:40] <Martin Thomson> q+
[12:52:11] <Ted Hardie> roni, harald, (then two in a scrum; not sure if Jonathan is first)
[12:52:26] <Martin Thomson> let Jonathan go
[12:53:06] <Ted Hardie> hta, christer, lenox, magnus
[12:54:06] <Ted Hardie> I cut the line after magnus
[12:54:35] <Martin Thomson> I was in q
[12:54:49] <Ted Hardie> okay, missed you; you will be pre-cut
[12:55:01] <Martin Thomson> :)
[12:55:08] <Ted Hardie> after lenox, before magnus
[12:58:21] dontcallmedom joins the room
[12:59:54] <EKR > q+
[13:00:06] <Ted Hardie> the q was cut, ekr
[13:00:11] <EKR > ok.
[13:00:15] <EKR > I just didn't hear that
[13:01:15] <Jonathan Lennox> What does "signaled" even mean in the WebRTC context? It's just "passed in/out through the JSEP API", isn't it?
[13:02:00] <Justin Uberti> jonathan - yes
[13:02:20] <Cullen Jennings> I think this whole signal discussion has raised the point there are a bunch of issues we need to consider with exactly when it we signal SSRC
[13:02:51] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[13:02:55] <Martin Thomson> q+
[13:03:01] <Ted Hardie> I find this use of "sessions" really wonky. "sessions might contain rtp mixers" is a really different use of session.
[13:03:05] <Ted Hardie> q= cullen, martin
[13:03:16] <Cullen Jennings> q- (Colin just answered my questions)
[13:03:21] <Martin Thomson> ted, agree
[13:03:29] <Ted Hardie> q= empty
[13:03:33] <Martin Thomson> q- me too
[13:04:36] <Cullen Jennings> I'm not really expecting implementation to do DVI4
[13:04:48] <Ted Hardie> q=lenox
[13:05:26] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[13:05:31] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen
[13:05:54] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen, Roni
[13:06:43] <Martin Thomson> q+
[13:10:13] <Cullen Jennings> want to q+ at end of this slide
[13:10:29] <Ted Hardie> noted
[13:10:41] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen (pending)
[13:11:57] <Justin Uberti> lost slides on hangout
[13:12:20] <Ted Hardie> working on it
[13:15:30] <Ted Hardie> Still on slide 7 of the preso, but we're not getting on the meeting
[13:15:33] <Ted Hardie> sorry.
[13:17:51] <Ted Hardie> 35 after the hour we return
[13:23:02] EKR leaves the room
[13:29:12] EKR joins the room
[13:38:14] <lepinski> Webex hears you
[13:38:18] <tuexen> Yes
[13:38:54] <Martin Thomson> some day, we will be able to do this stuff without requiring an ACK
[13:39:06] <Ted Hardie> mood lighting
[13:39:49] <Spencer Dawkins> On hangout, that sounded more like a modem tone than feedback. What the heck are you guys hooked to??? :-)
[13:39:59] <Ted Hardie> phonics
[13:40:10] <Ted Hardie> oh, sorry, hooked on.
[13:42:23] <Justin Uberti> +1
[13:42:57] tterribe leaves the room
[13:43:11] <jesup> +1
[13:43:23] <Martin Thomson> +1
[13:43:27] <Cullen Jennings> +1
[13:43:31] <Justin Uberti> +1
[13:43:35] <jesup> +2
[13:43:40] <Ted Hardie> hta in q
[13:44:26] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[13:44:31] <Ted Hardie> cullen in q
[13:44:43] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen, paul
[13:44:48] <jesup> hta+
[13:44:57] <Ted Hardie> cullen is not visible
[13:46:15] <jesup> True. Not an issue imho
[13:47:11] <hta> Spencer, the sound was the sound of WebEx and Hangouts trying to connect the same rooms at the same time. Nice loop!
[13:47:25] <hta> (the sound of duelling echo cancellers?)
[13:47:57] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[13:48:08] <Ted Hardie> Cullen is q, for the end of this slide
[13:48:26] <Ted Hardie> er, in q
[13:51:46] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[13:51:57] <Ted Hardie> Cullen in q
[13:52:33] <Cullen Jennings> q-
[13:52:59] <Martin Thomson> is this it: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lennox-rtcweb-rtp-media-type-mux-00 ?
[13:53:17] <Jonathan Lennox> I think Harald has a more recent version of the same idea?
[13:53:30] <Justin Uberti> +q
[13:53:33] <Cullen Jennings> q+ on end of lside
[13:53:39] <Martin Thomson> q+
[13:53:48] <hta> no, it's draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation-00
[13:54:19] <hta> q+
[13:54:32] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen, martin, hta
[13:55:20] <Martin Thomson> bundle is just signaling
[13:55:49] <EKR > q+
[13:55:57] <Ted Hardie> harald, ekr in q
[13:57:11] Justin Uberti leaves the room
[13:58:26] <Jonathan Lennox> I think we need the update in the avtcore context, which bundle and rtcweb would reference.
[13:59:22] bernard.aboba joins the room
[13:59:46] <bernard.aboba> I vote against the shim recommendation.
[13:59:58] roni_even leaves the room
[14:00:12] <bernard.aboba> It doesn't represent consensus of the RTCWEB WG (but it ended up in an RTCWEB WG draft, somehow).
[14:03:56] <EKR > +1 MAY
[14:03:59] <jesup> +1 may
[14:04:02] <Martin Thomson> +1 MAY
[14:04:03] <mreavy> +1 may
[14:04:05] <alan.b.johnston> +1 MAY
[14:04:11] <tuexen> + 1 MAY
[14:04:11] Justin Uberti joins the room
[14:04:11] <Martin Thomson> this === shim
[14:04:15] <Justin Uberti> +1 may
[14:05:23] aboba@jabber.org joins the room
[14:05:58] <Martin Thomson> btw, bernard you weren't counted here
[14:06:14] <Ted Hardie> With Bernard it is 11 and 11
[14:06:50] <Cullen Jennings> yes
[14:07:02] <aboba@jabber.org> Yes, separate should be supported
[14:07:10] <jesup> yes
[14:07:55] <jesup> good point
[14:08:03] <Justin Uberti> +q
[14:08:35] <hta> +q
[14:08:40] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:08:41] <jesup> q+
[14:09:41] <Justin Uberti> +q
[14:13:32] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:14:27] <hta> I'm happy to switch my opinion.....
[14:14:40] <Cullen Jennings> +1 on that
[14:15:04] <aboba@jabber.org> Required to implement...
[14:15:57] <Cullen Jennings> thoes were old
[14:16:25] <Justin Uberti> +q
[14:16:52] <hta> Jonathan's "it's easy to gateway" argument swung me....
[14:17:38] Neil Stratford leaves the room
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[14:20:06] roni_even joins the room
[14:20:34] <jesup> 1/2 +
[14:21:27] <aboba@jabber.org> Require symmetric
[14:24:12] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:24:13] <jesup> ++
[14:25:12] <jesup> q+
[14:25:55] <jesup> q-
[14:26:31] alan.b.johnston leaves the room
[14:27:16] <jesup> +1
[14:27:19] <EKR > q+
[14:29:26] <Justin Uberti> +1
[14:29:26] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:29:27] <Justin Uberti> +Q
[14:30:48] <EKR > So, I just looked at the 6222 algorithm and I don't believe it has anywhere enough entropy.
[14:32:02] <Jonathan Lennox> Should be brought up in AVTCore then
[14:32:08] <EKR > q+
[14:34:37] <jesup> q+
[14:38:15] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:39:20] <jesup> +1 Cullen/etc
[14:40:16] <aboba@jabber.org> I'd make TMMBR a should, personally...
[14:41:27] <jesup> q+
[14:43:10] <Martin Thomson> q+
[14:44:42] <Cullen Jennings> Side note: Marconi Viper system only send P frames. It was pretty coo.
[14:45:23] <Martin Thomson> I'm suggesting that we require FIR and let it go
[14:45:37] <jesup> We worked with p-frame only designs. martin++
[14:45:58] <Jonathan Lennox> RFC 5104: "A Full Intra Request (FIR) Command, when received by the designated media sender, requires that the media sender sends a Decoder Refresh Point (see section 2.2) at the earliest opportunity." That's probably already sufficient weasel-wording.
[14:45:59] dimartinii leaves the room
[14:46:13] <jesup> lennox++
[14:49:33] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:50:57] <jesup> q+
[14:51:27] <burn> agree with Stephan Wenger — we can speed up discussion of these little extensions by just saying that no sender or receiver can claim not to support them.
[14:52:02] aboba@jabber.org leaves the room
[14:53:45] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:53:48] <jesup> q+
[14:54:13] lepinski leaves the room
[14:54:52] tterribe joins the room
[14:55:48] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[14:57:22] <Justin Uberti> +q
[14:59:00] <Martin Thomson> q+
[14:59:57] <EKR > q+
[14:59:58] dimartinii joins the room
[15:00:07] <Justin Uberti> -q
[15:00:53] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[15:00:54] dontcallmedom joins the room
[15:01:12] <Ted Hardie> Sorry, I was away from keyboard
[15:02:32] tterribe leaves the room
[15:03:16] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[15:03:50] <jesup> q+
[15:05:43] tterribe joins the room
[15:07:59] <bernard.aboba> Cullen: I agree with you FWIW....
[15:08:22] <EKR > q+
[15:08:31] aboba@jabber.org joins the room
[15:09:10] <Justin Uberti> +q
[15:09:16] <jesup> q+
[15:10:11] <jesup> q-
[15:12:34] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[15:12:37] <Martin Thomson> q+
[15:12:56] <Ted Hardie> q=cullen, martin, roni, magnus
[15:13:36] <jesup> q+
[15:13:51] <Justin Uberti> q+
[15:13:57] <Ted Hardie> q=martin, roni, magnus, jesup, justin
[15:14:49] <aboba@jabber.org> Should not be required.... Agree with Culken and Martin.
[15:19:51] <Cullen Jennings> I note for minutes that Cisco may have IPR on subject of having a middle box get NAK to and resent. I will not comment on that part of the discussion.
[15:20:14] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[15:20:14] dontcallmedom joins the room
[15:21:41] <Justin Uberti> q+
[15:24:56] <jesup> q+
[15:27:23] <Martin Thomson> +1 SHOULD
[15:27:51] <Justin Uberti> +1 MUST
[15:27:58] <Neil Stratford> + must
[15:28:05] dontcallmedom leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[15:28:06] dontcallmedom joins the room
[15:29:59] <Cullen Jennings> q
[15:30:00] <Cullen Jennings> q+
[15:30:06] aboba@jabber.org leaves the room
[15:31:28] <Justin Uberti> q+
[15:33:30] <Martin Thomson> notes here: http://piratepad.net/we67J3ibxN
[15:34:02] <EKR > q+
[15:34:16] <bernard.aboba> RTT can be implemented via XEP-0301 in Javascript....
[15:34:21] <bernard.aboba> q+
[15:34:45] <bernard.aboba> There are implementations in progress now.... and it works with both MUC (XEP-045) as well as IM&P
[15:35:07] <jesup> ekr++
[15:37:01] <Ted Hardie> ted in q
[15:37:57] <hta> A FEC on all their houses?
[15:39:24] <Ted Hardie> I am aware of possible IPR on that joke.
[15:39:53] <EKR > I couldn't hear it
[15:39:58] <EKR > louder please
[15:40:08] <EKR > thx!
[15:40:18] <Anant Narayanan> We need a "@TedHardieSays" twitter account.
[15:40:35] <Martin Thomson> q+
[15:40:46] <EKR > ladies and gentlemen, the comedic stylings of Ted Hardie
[15:42:48] <EKR > q+
[15:42:57] <Ted Hardie> q=lars, ekrs
[15:43:16] <jesup> q+
[15:43:54] <Ted Hardie> q=ekr, jesup, hta
[15:43:59] <Ted Hardie> then <end>
[15:44:37] <Cullen Jennings> Do people see these messages ?
[15:44:43] <Ted Hardie> I see that message
[15:44:48] <tuexen> Yepp
[15:44:50] <Cullen Jennings> thx
[15:44:53] <burn> yes cullen
[15:45:07] <Cullen Jennings> I'm getting error on some of my messages but not all - oh well
[15:52:34] dimartinii leaves the room
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