IETF
rtcweb@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, 8 November 2012< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: RTCWEB WG http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/agenda
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[13:53:02] <Wolfgang Beck> The meetecho streaming icon is a pop corn bucket, not a trash can..
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[13:53:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> thought that was obvious :)
[13:53:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> or do we need new art??
[13:54:11] <Wolfgang Beck> it is a bit confusing
[13:54:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok then we *do* :)
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[13:54:44] <burn> Good morning. If you're remote, I'm your jabber relay for today. If you'd like something spoken at the microphone in the room, please begin your comment with "mic:"
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[13:54:55] <Wolfgang Beck> thank you!
[13:54:57] <danyork> Thank you, Dan. :-)
[13:54:59] <irc-> * members: rtcweb-wg
[13:55:03] <burn> Okay, maybe not for *all* of today — just for rtcweb :)
[13:55:42] <danyork> Is the meetecho up yet?
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[13:55:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> considering how controversial today's slides may be, you may want to get a mic just for yourself :)
[13:55:49] <irc-> [ron_] is there an audio stream up for this session? I don't see a link on the agenda page
[13:55:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> yes Dan, http://www.meetecho.com/ietf85/rtcweb
[13:56:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> if you're not interested in Jabber or just want to keep using your client for that, this link just has slides and audio/video http://atlanta.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=rtcweb
[13:56:31] <Wolfgang Beck> i can hear some noises from the room, audio seems to work
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[13:57:07] <Lorenzo Miniero> ron_ there's an RTSP stream rtsp://atlanta.conf.meetecho.com/ii6mrcn.sdp
[13:57:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> or refer to the previous link for more alternatives
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[14:00:45] <irc-> [ron_] hmm, I don't seem to have anything that wants to do RTSP ...
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[14:01:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> vlc should be able to do it
[14:01:16] <Lorenzo Miniero> my mplayer does as well
[14:01:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWEB
[14:01:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: NOTE WELL
[14:01:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> ffmpeg should too, it's just a G.711 stream
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[14:01:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: AGENDA Day 2
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[14:02:20] <burn> Serge Lachapelle at mic
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[14:03:20] <burn> (Ted Hardie, chair, is speaking from the front)
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[14:03:46] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
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[14:04:19] <danyork> You all are *already* at the mic and you're only on the agenda slide??? It's going to be THAT kind of session, eh?
[14:04:48] <burn> Dan, :)
[14:04:50] <irc-> [ron_] vlc works, cheers.
[14:04:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[14:05:10] <burn> Matthew Kaufman (still) at mic
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[14:05:12] <Martin Thomson> bashbashbash
[14:05:40] <burn> ?? at mic (couldn't hear name)
[14:05:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> I couldn't either, sorry
[14:06:06] <burn> David Dunham (sp) at mic
[14:06:07] <hta> David Benham
[14:06:10] <hta> ?
[14:06:13] <Lorenzo Miniero> I heard Belam :)
[14:06:14] frodeki joins the room
[14:06:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> but I'm Italian, I don't count
[14:06:30] <burn> Serge Lachapelle at mic
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[14:06:58] <burn> confirmed that it was David Benham before
[14:07:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[14:07:21] <burn> Harald Alvestrand getting reading to speak
[14:07:24] John Koleszar joins the room
[14:07:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Stats API
[14:08:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Model (so far)
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[14:09:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Model for Stats API - calls
[14:10:02] Reinhard joins the room
[14:10:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Implementation status
[14:11:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Takeaways from TPAC
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[14:12:19] <richard.barnes> test test
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[14:12:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Open Issues
[14:12:33] <burn> Hi Richard
[14:12:38] <richard.barnes> thx
[14:14:16] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[14:14:33] <burn> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
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[14:15:57] <burn> Dan Romascanu at mic
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[14:18:48] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[14:19:05] <burn> Robert O'Callahan at mic
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[14:20:21] <burn> (Harald has been told to stall — chairs and ADs are still out of room)
[14:20:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> ;)
[14:20:32] <burn> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
[14:21:25] <burn> Bernard Aboba at mic
[14:22:22] <burn> Martin Thomson at mic
[14:22:34] <burn> (in a moment)
[14:22:51] <burn> never mind
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[14:22:57] <burn> Chairs strolling back into room
[14:23:18] <burn> Cullen Jennings talking from front of room
[14:24:46] <burn> When you remote folks reply to the consensus check, please *clearly* indicate whether your preference is for or against. Yes, we don't know what the precise questions are yet, but I'm asking that you not just say "+1" or "hum" or "agree"
[14:25:17] <burn> Stefan Wenger at mic
[14:25:47] <burn> Bernard Aboba at mic
[14:26:24] <Martin Thomson> it's only funny because it's true
[14:26:47] <burn> Michael Ramaldo at mic
[14:26:53] <burn> oops, Ramalha
[14:26:56] <burn> Ramalho
[14:27:05] <burn> finger problems :)
[14:28:28] <burn> Remote folks, please clearly indicate "in favor" or "againt"
[14:28:33] <burn> against
[14:28:35] <David Flynn> against
[14:28:45] <burn> It was unanimous in favor in the room
[14:28:49] <Neil Stratford> in favour
[14:29:09] <burn> not one single hum against in room, fyi
[14:29:40] <burn> consensus called for "in favor" of agenda change as proposed
[14:29:52] <Martin Thomson> we are going to justin's slides from yesterday: slides 3
[14:30:30] <burn> Justin Uberti will be presenting
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[14:32:41] <Cullen Jennings> new slides are uploaded
[14:33:09] <Cullen Jennings> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-rtcweb-11.pdf
[14:33:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> loading them in Meetecho as well
[14:33:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: JSEP Update
[14:33:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: For Today
[14:33:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Media Stream Taxonomy
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[14:33:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: An Example
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[14:35:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Example SDP
[14:35:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Example Hierarchy
[14:36:56] <burn> Ted Hardie at mic
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[14:38:20] <burn> Keith Drage at mic
[14:39:27] <burn> Ted Hardie from the front
[14:39:48] <burn> Jonathan Lennox at mic
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[14:40:14] <burn> Roni Even at mic
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[14:41:00] <burn> Kevin Gross at mic
[14:41:41] <burn> Harald Alvestrand at mic
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[14:43:38] <burn> Jonathan Lennox at mic
[14:45:23] <burn> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
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[14:46:21] <burn> Cullen Jennings at mic
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[14:48:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: An Example
[14:49:32] <Hadriel Kaplan> chairs: if you want to discuss SRTP SDES in/out, I can present the slides we never showed in Vancouver
[14:49:53] <hardie> Thanks
[14:50:33] <burn> EKR back at mic
[14:51:27] <burn> Spencer Dawkins at mic
[14:51:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> Hadriel would these be the slides, in case? http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-rtcweb-15.pdf
[14:52:33] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[14:52:39] <Hadriel Kaplan> yup
[14:52:47] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok :)
[14:55:29] <burn> Jonathan Lennox at mic
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[14:56:28] <burn> Bernard Aboba at mic
[14:56:29] <jesup> Cullen Jennings: I'm doing quick slides
[14:56:55] <burn> Roni Even at mic
[14:57:22] <Cullen Jennings> @jesup: ACK - thank you
[14:57:24] <burn> (Jonathan Lennox is hovering near mic and might jump in)
[14:58:16] <burn> Harald Alvestrand at mic
[14:59:44] <burn> chairs: would like to see some progress on "must include", "must be changeable", "must not change", even though list is usually better for that kind of work
[15:00:54] <burn> ?? at mic
[15:02:17] <hardie> Suhas, i believe
[15:02:33] <burn> Martin Thomson at mic
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[15:05:24] <burn> Paul Kyzivat at mic
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[15:07:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Example SDP
[15:07:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Example Hierarchy
[15:07:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: m= line Mapping
[15:08:06] Ralph Giles joins the room
[15:08:10] <matthew> I'd love to discuss SDES, but I hear not enough people are ready
[15:08:39] <Hadriel Kaplan> probably because it's only been an open topic for over a year
[15:08:44] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
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[15:10:37] <burn> (queue is now very long)
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[15:11:05] <burn> 10 including Matthew
[15:11:09] Ralph Giles joins the room
[15:11:43] <burn> 11
[15:11:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> is there anyone in line outside te door?
[15:12:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> *the
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[15:13:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: m= line Mapping API
[15:13:47] <burn> Christer Holmberg at mic
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[15:16:52] <burn> Hadriel Kaplan at mic
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[15:18:47] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: m= line Mapping
[15:21:57] <burn> Harald Alvestrand at mic
[15:23:35] <burn> (7 in queue)
[15:23:39] <burn> Adam Roach at mic
[15:26:24] <burn> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
[15:29:09] <Ralph Giles> tterribe: would this a=ssrc idea let up declare different channel numbers for send and recieve for opus?
[15:30:37] <burn> Richard Ejzak at mic
[15:30:59] <tterribe> rillian: No, because the channel number is part of the payload type, which is specified in per-m-line a=rtpmap parameters.
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[15:32:25] <Ralph Giles> I was thinking a=ssrc:1 stereo=1
[15:32:35] <burn> (still 6 in queue)
[15:32:39] <burn> Cullen Jennings at mic
[15:32:39] <Ralph Giles> but I guess that's still special casing
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[15:35:13] <burn> Martin Thomson at mic
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[15:35:25] <burn> Magnus Westerlund at mic
[15:36:22] <burn> Roni Even at mic
[15:36:49] <tterribe> rillian: You could use RFC 5576-style a=ssrc:<ssrc> fmtp:<format> stereo=1
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[15:37:28] <tterribe> I _think_ that might get you 3 of the required 4 bits of information.
[15:37:33] <Martin Thomson> I was going to point out the bug in Justin's examples; or point out that bridging from webrtc to a legacy MCU is going to make some of these assumptions invalid, but that's boring
[15:37:36] <tterribe> But not all 4.
[15:39:01] <Jonathan Lennox> What are the four bits?
[15:39:12] <burn> Hadriel Kaplan at mic
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[15:39:40] <tterribe> Jonathan: Offerer has a stereo mic, offerer has stereo speakers, answerer has a stereo mic, answerer has stereo speakers.
[15:40:31] <burn> Charles Eckel at mic
[15:40:39] <burn> (queue is now empty)
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[15:42:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Justin's slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-rtcweb-11.pdf
[15:42:41] <burn> (stepping away for a moment)
[15:42:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Datachannel slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-rtcweb-13.pdf
[15:43:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: m= line Mapping API
[15:44:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: m= line Mapping API
[15:44:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Trickle ICE
[15:45:00] <burn> (back now)
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[15:46:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Rehydration
[15:47:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Session Restart
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[15:48:57] <burn> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
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[15:55:00] <burn> Martin Thomson at mic
[15:55:14] <hta> and this is a W3C item, there are no wire semantics here.
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[15:56:36] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[15:57:18] <burn> Randell Jesup at mic
[15:57:48] <Martin Thomson> thank you Harald
[15:58:29] <hta> Looking forward to seeing your Javascript....
[15:59:17] <Anant Narayanan> it's pretty easy for the application to handle this by out of band signaling
[15:59:34] <Anant Narayanan> replacing a <video> with another would be pretty seamless as far the user is concerned
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[15:59:45] <Martin Thomson> hta: I can work on this, or I can work on real problems; which would you prefer?
[16:00:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[16:00:54] Cullen Jennings leaves the room
[16:00:55] <burn> Randell Jesup is speaking next
[16:01:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: DataChannel issues
[16:01:53] <Jonathan Lennox> On the rehydration question — would a reload mean that the js needs to renew permission to use the camera and mic?
[16:02:17] <Martin Thomson> Jonathan: yes, that is one reason for my push back
[16:02:49] Tim Panton joins the room
[16:03:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> psychedelic beamer :)
[16:03:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Congestion Control
[16:03:27] <burn> (slides in the room keep changing colors)
[16:04:16] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options
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[16:06:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: More Options
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[16:07:43] <burn> Jonathan Lennox at mic
[16:07:47] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options
[16:07:51] Stefan joins the room
[16:08:12] <burn> (queue forming rapidly)
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[16:08:55] <burn> Colin Perkins at mic
[16:09:00] Ted joins the room
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[16:10:55] <burn> Michael Tuexen at mic
[16:12:32] Zaheduzzaman Sarker joins the room
[16:12:32] <burn> Bernard Aboba at mic
[16:13:57] <burn> Randall Stewart at mic
[16:14:17] <Martin Thomson> Matthew is about to invoke the magic number: 6...I think
[16:14:45] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[16:16:25] <burn> Harald Alvestrand at mic
[16:18:05] <burn> Magnus Westerlund at mic
[16:19:06] <matthew> that answer is a different one than comment 22
[16:19:23] <burn> Lars Eggert at mic
[16:19:48] <burn> ?? at mic
[16:20:39] lef.jpn leaves the room
[16:21:32] <burn> Michael ?? at mic
[16:21:39] <burn> Michael Ramalho
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[16:23:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: More Options
[16:23:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Initial creation
[16:23:15] <Hadriel Kaplan> Shared Udp Congestion Knowledge = SUCK
[16:23:28] <burn> Matthew Kaufman at mic
[16:23:53] <Hadriel Kaplan> Shared Udp Congestion Knowledge State = SUCKS
[16:25:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: What is in a particular DataChannel?
[16:27:11] <burn> Martin Thomson at mic
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[16:27:58] <burn> Jonathan Lennox at mic
[16:28:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Example
[16:29:22] <burn> Harald Alvestrand at mic
[16:29:48] <Martin Thomson> I disagree harald
[16:29:51] Simon Romano leaves the room
[16:30:00] <Martin Thomson> labels should be free-for-all
[16:30:17] <burn> (meeting adjourned)
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[16:30:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
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[16:30:41] <Wolfgang Beck> thanks for scribing!
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[16:31:13] <Erik Lagerway> Thx Burn & Lorenzo.
[16:31:18] Wolfgang Beck leaves the room
[16:31:25] <David Flynn> Please can someone repeat Stephan Wenger's last comment?
[16:31:30] Martin Thomson leaves the room
[16:31:34] <David Flynn> (and the answer)
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[16:31:46] <Ralph Giles> burn: thanks again for scribing
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[16:32:16] <Ralph Giles> David Flynn: Stephan asked that the video codec issue not be decided at the interm meeting
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[16:33:00] <Ralph Giles> and Ted Hardy (I think) said they didn't plan to discuss that issue at the interm
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