IETF
rtcweb@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, March 14, 2013< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: RTCWEB WG http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/agenda
Room Configuration
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[12:31:37] Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1) joins the room
[12:49:36] Meetecho Video joins the room
[12:50:34] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
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[13:02:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I've found my seat :-)
[13:03:19] <rillian@jabber.org> packed, is it?
[13:03:21] Tim Panton joins the room
[13:03:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Agenda Day 2
[13:03:43] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> (I am remote too)
[13:04:28] kalyani bogineni joins the room
[13:04:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[13:04:30] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[13:04:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: JSEP Update
[13:04:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Justin Uberti
[13:04:45] Ralph Giles joins the room
[13:04:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: JSEP Update
[13:04:50] Fred Astaire joins the room
[13:05:19] ietfdbh joins the room
[13:06:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Updates and Open Issues
[13:06:16] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who's a jabber scribe?
[13:06:24] Gonzalo joins the room
[13:07:17] <Jonathan Lennox> If there's no jabber scribe I can volunteer.
[13:07:23] gmaxwell joins the room
[13:07:27] <Jonathan Lennox> Are there in fact notetakers appointed?
[13:07:30] <ietfdbh> who's presentig, and which set of slides?
[13:07:46] <Jonathan Lennox> Justin Uberti, JSEP update
[13:07:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Trickle ICE
[13:08:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Justin Uberti, presenting JSEP updates
[13:08:09] Andrew Biggs joins the room
[13:08:18] <Jonathan Lennox> As usual, if you want comments relayed to the mic, prefix with "mic:"
[13:08:20] Stefan Håkansson leaves the room
[13:08:32] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Thanks Jonathan :-)
[13:08:48] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: ICE Candidate Gathering
[13:08:53] hardie@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[13:09:10] Parthasarathi Ravindran joins the room
[13:09:10] Jaya Mandava joins the room
[13:09:19] Stefan joins the room
[13:09:56] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> EKR talking, right?
[13:10:04] <Jonathan Lennox> YEs, that was EKR
[13:10:14] Gonzalo leaves the room
[13:10:16] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Could determine b baudrate
[13:10:17] Adam Uzelac joins the room
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[13:11:03] Akihiko Tsuno joins the room
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[13:12:12] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> we're working on the audio
[13:12:18] <stpeter> is someone relaying comments from the chatroom to the mic?
[13:12:27] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Joathan Lennox is relaying
[13:12:30] <stpeter> ok
[13:12:31] <rillian@jabber.org> hardie: thank you
[13:12:32] danyork leaves the room
[13:12:50] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Hard to hear Dr Fluffy Jennings Sir
[13:12:54] Akihiko Tsuno leaves the room
[13:12:59] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I can hear that!
[13:13:13] <ietfdbh> audio is good for me.
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[13:13:20] <Jonathan Lennox> Which speakers were good?
[13:13:35] <rillian@jabber.org> I can hear justin
[13:13:35] <Jonathan Lennox> Could you hear Cullen the second time?
[13:13:41] <rillian@jabber.org> fluffy was very quiet
[13:13:42] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> He disappeared for a while
[13:13:44] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: ICE Restart
[13:13:53] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Which is not fluffy-like
[13:13:55] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> ;-)
[13:13:58] Akihiko Tsuno joins the room
[13:14:17] <rillian@jabber.org> fwiw, the meetecho flash stream is the only thing that worked for me
[13:14:36] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I listen to Meetecho too
[13:15:19] danyork joins the room
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[13:16:15] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Good audio on that mic - EKR
[13:16:17] <rillian@jabber.org> I can hear ekr well
[13:16:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Description Rollback
[13:16:32] <Jonathan Lennox> We've switched which room mic we're using, for now.
[13:17:11] Akihiko Tsuno joins the room
[13:17:51] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Can the video show the speaker instead of the chairs?
[13:17:51] Magnus Westerlund joins the room
[13:17:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Description Rollback
[13:18:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> ups sorry Olle
[13:18:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> I was busy following the presentation and didn't notice where the webcam was pointing at
[13:18:54] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Happens :-) THanks Lorenzo.
[13:19:46] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> We've removed the bad mic; they won't be able to fix it until the break.
[13:20:13] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Rehydration v3
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[13:32:35] Salvatore Loreto joins the room
[13:32:40] Jonathan Lennox (again) joins the room
[13:33:07] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Are other people seeing bad behavior with the Jabber room?
[13:33:21] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> multiple enters/joins?
[13:33:24] Oscar Divorra leaves the room
[13:33:26] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Yes, I see that.
[13:33:35] Salvatore Loreto leaves the room
[13:34:05] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> People closing browser tabs or windows… ;-)
[13:34:10] Muthu Perumal joins the room
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[13:34:13] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> I was dropped on my connection from my jabber.org account; I'm now connected from both jabber.org and gmail.com, and I'm seeing entirely different rosters
[13:34:19] Salvatore Loreto joins the room
[13:34:22] <mhp> I'm seeing the meetecho audio/video streams freezing every 10mins or so
[13:34:41] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> The same as mhp
[13:34:59] <mhp> :-) I'll stop inspecting my local network then!
[13:35:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> do you mean the stream is on but it's freezed, or that you just need to reload it?
[13:35:00] Gustavo García leaves the room
[13:35:25] <mhp> Video freezes, audio stops.  I hit 'refresh' to reload page and it works again
[13:35:50] Michael Lundberg joins the room
[13:35:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> oh but you don't need to reload the whole page, you can just reload the stream by clicking on it
[13:36:07] <mhp> ok - will try that next time - eta 5 mins
[13:36:11] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> This is what will happen in WebRTC… Topic of current discussion.
[13:36:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[13:36:23] <mhp> the irony wasn't lost on me!
[13:37:11] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> My gmail.com connection seems clean; I suspect my problems were related to jabber.org, which has been flaky.
[13:38:45] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> "I didn't mean to help"  Dr. Cullen "Fluffy" Jennings
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[13:40:51] <stpeter> jonathan lennox: most likely
[13:41:08] <stpeter> jonathan lennox: jabber.org will be much more stable in time for Berlin
[13:41:20] <mhp> clicking on the speaker icon restarted the streaming as expected - thanks Lorenzo
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[13:42:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> glad it worked
[13:42:07] <Lorenzo Miniero> we'll have to look into the issue though
[13:42:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> I know it can be annoying...
[13:43:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Questions
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[13:45:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[13:45:14] <Jaya Mandava> Ah the most awaiting topic
[13:45:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: VP8 for RTCWEB Mandatory To Implement
[13:45:44] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Harald Alvestrand
[13:45:45] Akihiko Tsuno joins the room
[13:45:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: VP8 for RTCWEB Mandatory To Implement
[13:46:09] claude leaves the room
[13:46:11] claude joins the room
[13:46:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: VP8
[13:47:33] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: VP8 Is Well Defined
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[13:48:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Comparing Picture Quality
[13:49:11] claude leaves the room
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[13:50:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: VP8 Wins on Quality
[13:50:22] David Richards joins the room
[13:51:08] <David Richards> hello
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[13:51:18] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Yes, David?
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[13:51:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: VP8 Wins on Performance
[13:51:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: VP8 Wins on Quality
[13:52:00] c leaves the room
[13:52:13] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Please present speakers, thank you
[13:52:18] gmaxwell joins the room
[13:52:25] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Bo Burman speaking
[13:55:21] negge joins the room
[13:55:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: VP8 Wins on Performance
[13:55:56] Alex Agranovsky joins the room
[13:56:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Cullen
[13:57:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: H.264 Hardware Has Issues
[13:57:48] Adrian Grange joins the room
[13:58:41] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> That was Stephan Wenger before her
[13:59:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Gail <what> ?
[13:59:22] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Gaelle
[13:59:35] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> martin-cocher
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[13:59:51] <Ralph Giles> responding to Stephan: the codec is also tuned by choosing the profile the hardware will implement
[14:00:11] <stpeter> Xavier Marjou at the mic, I take it
[14:00:17] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Yes
[14:00:37] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> The hardware codec may not be reachable from software.
[14:01:44] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Were any of those comments intended for the mic?
[14:01:46] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Well, if the code is open source - then people doesn't HAVE to implement it again and again and again
[14:01:51] gmaxwell leaves the room
[14:01:53] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> No.
[14:02:01] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Ralph?
[14:02:19] Andrew Biggs leaves the room
[14:02:28] <Ralph Giles> Jonathan: Yes, sorry.
[14:03:03] Andrew Biggs joins the room
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[14:04:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: VP8 Hardware
[14:05:13] PasiS joins the room
[14:05:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: VP8 Is Maintained
[14:05:48] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Summary
[14:06:47] sal joins the room
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[14:09:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: VP8 Hardware
[14:09:50] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Gaelle Martin-Cocher speaking
[14:10:22] Ram Mohan R leaves the room
[14:10:26] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Echoes from IETF Stockholm Codec bof. "This group doesn't understand what you are trying to do"
[14:10:47] enrico joins the room
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[14:11:35] <stpeter> Mo Zanaty at the mic
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[14:12:47] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: VP8 for RTCWEB Mandatory To Implement
[14:12:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: VP8
[14:14:15] RjS joins the room
[14:15:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[14:15:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Codec decision A look at IPR
[14:15:51] saverio mascolo joins the room
[14:15:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: First, a look at H.264. What is it?
[14:16:29] Vittorio Palmisano joins the room
[14:16:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Bo Burman
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[14:18:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: H.264 Requirements
[14:19:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: When do we have to pay?
[14:19:57] Vittorio Palmisano leaves the room
[14:20:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: H.264 Sw/Hw Implementations
[14:21:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Using Platform H.264 support
[14:21:17] Vittorio Palmisano joins the room
[14:22:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Now, a look at VP8 IPR.
[14:22:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: IPR Licenses for VP8
[14:23:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: MPEG-LA Agreement
[14:23:33] Vittorio Palmisano leaves the room
[14:23:51] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Sources
[14:24:31] Erik Lagerway joins the room
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[14:27:50] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> mic: Servers doesn't have h264. We can't do anything in Asterisk et al with H264
[14:27:55] Vittorio Palmisano joins the room
[14:27:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> exactly what I was thinking about
[14:28:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> our videomixer doesn't have it either
[14:28:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> because we cant...
[14:28:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> can't
[14:28:40] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> It's not that ASterisk users doesn't want to pay, there's simply no agreement available.
[14:29:25] <Erik Lagerway> Can someone scribe who is on the mic(s) please.
[14:29:34] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> +1
[14:29:35] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Currently EKR
[14:29:44] Monty joins the room
[14:29:45] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> This is Markus Isomaki
[14:29:45] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Previously Hadriel..
[14:30:12] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Stephen Wenger
[14:30:23] <stpeter> Stephan
[14:30:31] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> sorry, quick fingers
[14:30:37] <stpeter> no worries :-)
[14:30:42] <stpeter> just getting the record right
[14:31:10] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> by the way, the line is cut
[14:31:19] <Erik Lagerway> Who was it from Nokia that disclosed IPR on VP8 ?
[14:31:27] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Markus Isomaki
[14:31:28] Vittorio Palmisano leaves the room
[14:31:44] <Erik Lagerway> thx ted
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[14:32:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: MPEG-LA Agreement
[14:32:36] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> I am in line for Olle
[14:32:47] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Understood
[14:34:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[14:34:29] RjS leaves the room
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[14:35:09] <Jaya Mandava> who is the speaker?
[14:35:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Combined Presentation Goal
[14:35:25] KK Chittimaneni leaves the room
[14:35:36] Dan York joins the room
[14:35:37] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Meetech says Lorenzo Miniero - which I don't believe is correct
[14:35:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> is it Bo Burman? I'm not sure I got the name right
[14:35:42] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Bo Burman (guess)
[14:35:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Proposal
[14:35:48] <hta> Yes, it is.
[14:35:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Bo Burman
[14:35:51] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Proposal
[14:35:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> thanks
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[14:36:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> A new status? RECOMMENDED?
[14:36:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Selection Criteria
[14:36:36] danyork joins the room
[14:36:41] <hta> RECOMMENDED is an RFC 2119 term equivalent with SHOULD.
[14:36:50] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Thanks, hta.
[14:37:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Implementation
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[14:37:26] <hta> 320x240 for the largest MUST implement.
[14:37:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Interoperability
[14:37:48] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> audio/video blackout in Meetecho...
[14:37:57] RjS joins the room
[14:38:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Negotiation
[14:38:09] <Erik Lagerway> +1 olle
[14:38:15] <Jaya Mandava> i agree, no audio/video on meetecho
[14:38:18] <Parthasarathi Ravindran> +1 olle
[14:38:19] <Ralph Giles> I lost audio as well
[14:38:28] <Monty> yeah, All the streams have been 404, I've just been watching the slides and chat channel.
[14:38:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> working on this, sorry...
[14:38:35] brooss leaves the room
[14:38:36] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Performance
[14:38:37] <David Flynn> dialin also dropped
[14:38:40] <hta> He's mainly reading aloud from the slides, so you 're not missing that much.
[14:39:11] brooss joins the room
[14:39:16] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> http://ietf86streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf866.m3u works
[14:39:20] <Erik Lagerway> http://ietf86streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf866.m3u <- this works
[14:39:48] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: IPR 
[14:40:20] <Ralph Giles> Erik: thanks
[14:40:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> streams should be back now
[14:40:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Comparison of Impacts to Licensing/I
[14:40:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> let me know if that's not the case
[14:41:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> messed up slide, sorry
[14:41:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Does the blank slide indicate that I haven't signed the NDA ?? ;-)
[14:41:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[14:41:28] <Ralph Giles> Lorenzo: opus stream is no longer 404, but it's silent
[14:41:31] <John Leslie> Waiting for a stream to become available…
[14:41:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: End
[14:41:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Or doesn't meetecho have the current set of slides
[14:41:35] <Ralph Giles> ah, it's started now
[14:41:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/slides/slides-86-rtcweb-12.pptx
[14:41:49] KK Chittimaneni leaves the room
[14:41:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> this was the slide deck
[14:42:15] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who is talking now?
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[14:42:24] <hta> ted hardie
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[14:42:52] KK Chittimaneni leaves the room
[14:42:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Performance
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[14:43:01] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> From the floor mic, by the way; as an individual.
[14:43:20] Tim Panton joins the room
[14:43:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> (quiet laughter)
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[14:45:20] <David Flynn> dial in btroken again
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[14:45:38] <Erik Lagerway> http://ietf86streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf866.m3u <- still working
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[14:45:50] <mhp> I had an audio stream from a wg in RTG by the sound of it!
[14:46:00] <Monty> I have a stream now... for a different meeting?
[14:46:04] <David Flynn> yes, but that is difficult for other reaons
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[14:47:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> sorry, it should be fine now...
[14:47:30] <Erik Lagerway> who was just on the mic ?
[14:47:39] <stpeter> Erik Lagerway: that was me
[14:47:43] <stpeter> Peter Saint-Andre
[14:47:46] <Erik Lagerway> thx stephen
[14:47:59] <stpeter> and I'm so happy that I got the chance to use the word 'antepenultimate' ;-)
[14:48:10] <Erik Lagerway> s/thx stephen/Peter
[14:48:12] <Ralph Giles> stpeter: we were impressed!
[14:48:17] <stpeter> ;-)
[14:48:22] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> We were impressed at the front of the room
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[14:49:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: IPR 
[14:50:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Performance
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[14:52:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who's talking?
[14:52:22] <Adam Uzelac> not for mic, but the first point around performance numbers the current speaker makes gets a ++ from moi. Not meaningful. fwiw
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[14:53:01] <Ralph Giles> Olle: This is Stephan Wenger
[14:53:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[14:53:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: H.264 vs VP8 Video Comparisons
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[14:53:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Cullen Jennings
[14:53:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: H.264 vs VP8 Video Comparisons
[14:54:07] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Bit of Fun?
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[14:54:23] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Video A: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17089001/VidComp/a.mov
Video B: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17089001/VidComp/b.mov
[14:54:41] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Download and play, do not play from Dropbox (according to Dr Fluffy)
[14:55:16] <gmaxwell> H264 gives cullen a big head
[14:55:27] <stpeter> NSFW!
[14:55:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[14:55:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Approach to Testing
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[14:57:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Test Setup
[14:57:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Complaint #1
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[14:58:49] <gmaxwell> There appears to be a severe downsampling problem in the VP8 full size video. Looks like it has ants. As a video codec developer I don't know how the codec could create that artifact.  Bummer.  Cullen missed the number #1 way to avoid a busted comparison: Peer review.
[14:59:04] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Is that for mic:
[14:59:17] <gmaxwell> nah.
[14:59:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Compliant #2
[14:59:36] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Compliant #3
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[14:59:53] <gmaxwell> (someone just mentioned that it looked like nearest neighbor scaling)
[15:00:03] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> That was Tim Terribery
[15:00:35] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> And I still can't spell
[15:00:48] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Compliant #4
[15:00:56] <Jan-Ivar Bruaroey> Are the tests shown even using the same camera?
[15:01:08] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Timothy B. Terriberry
[15:01:18] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Jan-Ivar:  no
[15:01:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> VP8 at 2.2mbps, H.264 at 768kbps
[15:01:33] <Lorenzo Miniero> (missing in my slide)
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[15:01:37] <Jan-Ivar Bruaroey> then the comparison is silly
[15:01:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: 9
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[15:02:02] <Ralph Giles> Jan-Ivar: at least he did a test
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[15:05:15] <Jan-Ivar Bruaroey> I think the colors on the right are better. Looks like he used an iPad mini camera
[15:05:15] <Ralph Giles> Jan-Ivar: if the jabber room won't let you post any more, you might try the meetecho interface.
[15:05:27] <Ralph Giles> ah, nevermind
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[15:08:39] <gmaxwell> Earlier one of the people at the mic said that the higher profiles of H.264 implied more of the out of pool exposure— did someone catch who said that or will I just need to find it in the audio recording later?
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[15:08:53] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> gmaxwell; I believe that was Stephan
[15:09:03] <hta> I think Stefan Wenger said that.
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[15:09:43] <Monty> why it could look bad: camera alone could be it... we don't know.
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[15:12:17] <Erik Lagerway> +1 hadriel
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[15:12:55] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Ted has ascii art video on the screen
[15:13:08] <stpeter> http://idevelop.github.com/ascii-camera/
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[15:13:26] <Bryan Paluch> awesome
[15:13:31] <stpeter> :)
[15:13:32] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I need a punch card transport for that to work with my old IBM mainframe.
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[15:13:58] <mrex-ietf> the video resolution and quality of meetecho looks fairly close to useless
[15:14:18] <Monty> mrex-ietf: In that it's not working at all, correct.
[15:14:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> it's QCIF and we know it sucks
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[15:14:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> it's working now, I'm monitoring it
[15:14:30] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> There's a reason we want to leave Flash behind
[15:14:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Flash is just a viewer
[15:14:46] <Monty> I'm still getting 404s here...  Ah well.
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[15:14:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> you can attach to it using the java applet, webrtc or a softphone
[15:15:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> if that's not enough I really don't know what else we should do add
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[15:15:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> :-)
[15:16:05] <Jaya Mandava> hand-up
[15:16:34] <Monty> end to end is important... but this, I will wager, has little to nothing to do with the codec.
[15:16:46] <Ralph Giles> "Squished Cullen"
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[15:19:16] <Pierrick Philippe> I believe it is worth noticing that although the IETF takes decisions on individual participants, I remark that 50% of them make part of only 2 organisations (google & Mozilla)
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[15:20:34] <Monty> Argh, that's the fourth time 'uparrow' has lost a long response...
[15:21:15] <Erik Lagerway> I would argue that p2p streaming is a real use case and will become more common place in the future.
[15:21:42] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> define "p2p streaming" - me playing you a stored video?
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[15:22:01] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> This is Martin Thomson, channeling Matthew Kaufmann
[15:22:04] <Monty> The longer the meeting, the more likely we lose sight of the fundamental problem:  If I, Monty, individual FOSS developer with no commercial resources, cannot ship an MTI that's a) legal for me to ship and b) legal for others to use, I will not support the given MTI.
[15:22:26] <Erik Lagerway> while on a call = yes, eg. social tv
[15:22:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[15:22:42] <Monty> Past that point, we can have a beauty contest, or consider the commercial implications for large players.
[15:22:50] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Erik: "Social TV" is a cool usage
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[15:22:57] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> When responding to questions in Jabber, please indicate specifically which question you are answering, due to lag
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[15:24:42] <Parthasarathi Ravindran> H.264
[15:24:44] <Tim Panton> Hand raise for 2 (VP8)
[15:24:53] <Ralph Giles> I raise my hand for option two: I support VP8 as MTI.
[15:24:54] <Jaya Mandava> H.264
[15:24:55] <David Flynn> Raises hand for h.264
[15:24:57] <Bryan Paluch> hand raise for h264
[15:25:03] <Pierrick Philippe> hand raised
[15:25:03] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> raising hand only for 2 - not for H.264
[15:25:05] <thdavies@cisco.com> hand raise for h264
[15:25:13] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> Pierrick - for which?
[15:25:20] <Pierrick Philippe> hand raised for h264 (only)
[15:25:21] <Michael Lundberg> hand for VP8
[15:25:24] <Adam Linford> hand raise for vp8
[15:25:25] <Monty> hand raise for VP8
[15:25:28] <Bryan Paluch> hand for VP8 as well.
[15:25:33] <Erik Lagerway> hand up vp8
[15:25:35] <Jan Skoglund> vp80
[15:25:53] <Monty> Audio just died
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[15:25:58] <stpeter> ouch
[15:26:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> which stream were you listening to Monty?
[15:26:22] <Monty> the mp3
[15:26:23] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> who talks?
[15:26:24] <Ralph Giles> "What more information would you need to make a decision? Please bring it to the mic now."
[15:26:27] <Monty> nothing else was working
[15:26:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> I'm monitoring the audio video stream and it works fine
[15:26:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok
[15:26:34] <mrex-ietf> @monty: are you sure it died -- or did only the server disconnect you after 2 hours
[15:26:50] <Ralph Giles> "I'd like to know more about packet loss and bandwidth limits."
[15:26:51] <Monty> no, I can hear noise that sounds like the ground got cut
[15:27:00] <Ralph Giles> "We should test over cheap hotel internet."
[15:27:11] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Adam Roach
[15:27:13] <Ralph Giles> "I think the ASCII codec thing is a clear winner for MTI"
[15:27:24] <Ralph Giles> "There are still some question marks about licensing."
[15:27:42] <mrex-ietf> I'm still getting audio across the pond
[15:27:45] <Ralph Giles> "Have we considered the risks about not having and MTI as a third option."
[15:27:51] <Ralph Giles> "Consensus was we needed an MTI"
[15:28:00] <Ralph Giles> "Anything else to capture?"
[15:28:04] <Monty> Ah, I apologize--- it is the hastily borrowed headphones here.
[15:28:09] <Monty> False alarm
[15:28:23] <stpeter> Monty: ack
[15:28:38] <Ralph Giles> Lennox: "There was consensus for MTI, but some people were saying, 'no MTI is better than the other side's choice.'"
[15:28:46] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> s/are/may be/
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[15:28:59] <Jonathan Lennox (again)> I have not necessarily actually heard this from anyone
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[15:29:00] <Ralph Giles> mic back to the chairs
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[15:29:04] <Ralph Giles> closing remarks
[15:29:16] Salvatore Loreto leaves the room
[15:29:28] <Ralph Giles> chairs will work with area directors and get back to the wg with the next steps as soon as possible
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[15:29:35] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> THanks Lorenzo and Jonathan!
[15:29:47] <Adam Uzelac> ACK well done gents!
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[15:29:49] <Parthasarathi Ravindran> Thx Lorenzo
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[15:29:55] <Jaya Mandava> Thanks Lorenzo
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[15:30:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> glad we could be of help
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[15:30:11] <Albrecht Schwarz> Thanks Lorenzo!
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[15:30:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> sorry for the broken stream before
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[15:30:20] <Erik Lagerway> thx lorenzo
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[15:30:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> we'll make recordings available ASAP
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