[00:06:34] --- jis has become available
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[00:08:20] --- jis has become available
[00:08:23] <jis> jj
[00:08:32] --- jis has left
[00:09:18] --- jis has become available
[00:17:12] --- warlord has become available
[00:18:00] --- xag has become available
[00:22:04] --- shep has become available
[00:23:25] <xag> Is the agenda online please ?
[00:23:48] --- kenh has become available
[00:25:08] --- rlbob has become available
[00:26:13] --- mstjohns has become available
[00:26:14] <rlbob> at this point it is neither online nor onscreen ...
[00:26:27] --- hartmans has become available
[00:26:54] --- jhutz has become available
[00:27:05] --- jakob has become available
[00:27:17] --- Bill has become available
[00:27:26] --- admcd has become available
[00:27:47] <jhutz> WG reports...
[00:27:55] <jhutz> SASL: Sam Hartman, Kurt Zeilenga
[00:28:09] <jhutz> hartmans: primary goal to get rfc2222bis to AD's
[00:28:26] --- omarjan has become available
[00:28:35] <jhutz> ... 2 major issues: (1) not enough review; if you have time to review, it would be appreciated.
[00:28:42] <jhutz> ... let us know if you review, even if you have no comments
[00:29:03] <jhutz> ... [missed #2]
[00:29:17] <jhutz> discussions of digest-md5 - pulled out modes that don't interop, have sec flaws
[00:29:22] <jhutz> ... aes
[00:29:36] <jhutz> ... hope to have done by July, but doc ed says that's optimistic
[00:29:50] <jhutz> ... meeting was mostly a review of open issues; no new decisions
[00:29:56] <jhutz> russ: tell me about saslprep
[00:30:06] --- lha has become available
[00:30:10] <jhutz> .hartmans: we think it's done; should we send it to you now?
[00:30:15] <jhutz> russ: yess
[00:30:22] <jhutz> hartmans: let me check with kurt....
[00:30:24] <jhutz> kurt: OK
[00:30:32] <jhutz> hartmans: OK; we'll send it up
[00:31:55] --- dirk87 has become available
[00:32:23] <jhutz> me: krbwg met this morning; reviewed doc status, open issues
[00:32:37] <jhutz> russ: since you met this morning, one of your documents has cleared the iesg
[00:32:43] <jhutz> inch: roman danyliw
[00:32:45] <jhutz> ... [xxx]
[00:32:50] <jhutz> ... two data model documents
[00:32:54] <jhutz> ... first core ????
[00:33:04] <jhutz> ... too complicated; what do we actually need; cleaning up
[00:33:04] --- galvinjamesm has become available
[00:33:15] <jhutz> .... second is "lid"? - traceback mechanism
[00:33:31] <jhutz> ... last draft was [xxx losting badly]
[00:33:40] <jhutz> PKIX: steve kent, tim polk
[00:33:45] <jhutz> smb: someone want to speak for pkix?
[00:33:54] <jhutz> russ: jim, will you do it?
[00:34:04] <jhutz> jim: <reluctant> OK....
[00:34:17] <jhutz> jim(?): PKIX met monday afternoon
[00:34:23] <jhutz> ... looked at two different documents
[00:34:39] <jhutz> ... sim(?) document needs to go through another update to deal with issues on list;
[00:34:45] <jhutz> then should be ready for last call
[00:35:06] <jhutz> [xxx] has come back from iesg; got new editors, who discovered more issues
[00:35:18] <jhutz> [yyy] has also come back; editors gone, no new editors found
[00:35:27] <jhutz> SMIME: sean turner, blake ramsdell
[00:35:45] <jhutz> ?: basically just did updates/status updates
[00:36:03] <jhutz> ... cert, cert bis in last call
[00:36:11] --- galvinjamesm has left: Disconnected
[00:36:22] <jhutz> [argh; I don't know enough of what people are doing to do this]
[00:36:33] --- dirk87 has left: Replaced by new connection
[00:36:33] --- dirk87 has become available
[00:36:34] --- dirk87 has left
[00:36:45] --- sommerfeld has become available
[00:36:52] --- galvinjamesm has become available
[00:36:54] --- tomphelan has become available
[00:36:58] --- dirk87 has become available
[00:36:58] <jhutz> russ: do you want to talk about the compressed data issue?
[00:37:08] <mstjohns> message bis and cert bis -> updates to message and certificate formats
[00:37:11] --- kivinen has become available
[00:37:13] <jhutz> x: in message draft, during review, we found it pointed to compress draft document
[00:37:30] <jhutz> ... russ said you have to specify what algorithm you use; I said "don't we just point at the RFC's"
[00:37:43] <jhutz> ... turns out it points at two documents, so there is ambiguity
[00:37:56] <jhutz> ... will get a third implementor, try to make spec more clear
[00:38:03] --- Blake has become available
[00:38:05] --- rickravaya has become available
[00:38:12] <jhutz> ... (first 2 implementors happened to do it the same)
[00:38:37] <jhutz> russ: what worries me is, we had an ambiguity; two independent implementors did it the same -- indepenent implementation doesn't always catch everything
[00:38:47] <jhutz> LTANS: carl wallace, tobias gondrom
[00:39:14] <jhutz> x: we basically spend 1:45 discussion the two documents
[00:39:32] <jhutz> ... based on meeting... requirements is in good shape; has one issue to discuss on list before LC
[00:39:40] <jhutz> ... xxx document in good shape
[00:39:43] <jhutz> ... yyy document ???
[00:39:49] <jhutz> [I don't know what any of these docs are!]
[00:40:07] <jhutz> MOBIKE: jari arkko, tero kivinen (but really paul hoffman)
[00:40:22] <jhutz> paul: I'm not Tero, and I don't speak any finnish
[00:40:36] <jhutz> paul: we met for the first time as a WG on monday. had a couple of good presentations
[00:40:45] <jhutz> ... have protocol presentations before design presentations
[00:40:54] <jhutz> ... get protocol ideas in mind, then look at design picture
[00:41:04] <jhutz> ... after design discussion, got another proposal for a protocol
[00:41:15] <jhutz> ... will go thorugh design decisions, try to coalesce the WG on a protocol
[00:41:22] <jhutz> ... over the next month to month-and-a-half
[00:41:25] --- rickravaya has left
[00:41:27] <jhutz> ... might be a very fast working group
[00:41:48] <jhutz> ... might catch up to ike v2 at iesg
[00:41:50] <jhutz> russ: that was mean
[00:42:10] <jhutz> paul: looking good within group; lots of agreement on design and possibilitiew
[00:42:17] --- xag has left
[00:42:23] --- xag has become available
[00:42:23] <jhutz> PKI4IPSEC: gregory lebovitz, trevor freeman
[00:42:33] <jhutz> paul: I was the major stuckee; I'll talk
[00:42:55] <jhutz> paul: the WG met as a WG for the first time....
[00:43:07] <jhutz> .. we have 2 deliverables, broken into 3 steps
[00:43:13] <jhutz> .. started w 2nd and 3rd
[00:43:25] <jhutz> ... ability to do whole life cycle of cert, starting with enrollment, revocation, etc
[00:43:31] <jhutz> ... then went into main protocol document
[00:43:39] <jhutz> ... lost of interesting discussion; current draft not consistent in some places
[00:43:46] <jhutz> ... doesn't go quite to where the WG had decided
[00:43:54] <jhutz> ... agreement it would be good to bring draft up to date
[00:44:06] <jhutz> ... some contentions on first parts; second parts going well
[00:44:15] <jhutz> OPENGPG: derek atkins
[00:44:23] <jhutz> warlord: openpg met on tuesday
[00:44:31] <jhutz> ... editor wasn't here; no major players here
[00:44:40] <jhutz> ... mostly I've been picking up; stagnated for last 2-3 years
[00:44:49] <jhutz> ... finishing up 2440(?)bis
[00:44:59] <jhutz> ... seemed to have concensus (mostly quiet people)
[00:45:04] <jhutz> ... issues w/supplied text ok
[00:45:14] <jhutz> ... issues w/o supplied text; push back to contributor ask for text
[00:45:17] <jhutz> ... milestones updated
[00:45:26] <jhutz> smb: and removed references to Y1900 problem?
[00:45:28] <jhutz> <laughter>
[00:45:39] <jhutz> SYSLOG: chris lonvick
[00:45:53] <jhutz> chris: met yesterday for ~1hr
[00:45:59] <jhutz> ... no major players, no draft authors
[00:46:07] <jhutz> ... they sent presentations, which I went over
[00:46:18] <jhutz> ... been working with syslog sign doc over past couple of months
[00:46:29] <jhutz> ... had discussiosn about pulling out parts of protocol [???]
[00:46:34] <jhutz> ... add syslog sign as an app protocol
[00:46:44] <jhutz> ... pull out transport doc... make udp required transport
[00:46:54] <jhutz> ... if anyone feels like it, they can do tcp; concensus is it probably won't happen
[00:46:58] <jhutz> ... we do have beep transport
[00:47:06] <jhutz> ... syslog device mib reviewed; some changes made
[00:47:14] <jhutz> OPSEC BoF: ross callon
[00:47:24] <jhutz> smb: unusual 2nd BOF on op security reqs...
[00:47:32] <jhutz> ... george jones' doc presented last saag
[00:47:41] <jhutz> ... some question what to do with it
[00:47:51] --- tomphelan has left: Replaced by new connection.
[00:47:53] <jhutz> ... george not able to attend; we used jabber to good effect
[00:47:56] --- tomphelan has become available
[00:48:02] <jhutz> ... low-effort way to participate
[00:48:07] <jhutz> ... requires a scribe, but not much more overhead
[00:48:08] --- tomphelan has left: Disconnected.
[00:48:20] <jhutz> hartmans: actually, in Kerberos we had more people participating via jabber than in the room
[00:48:32] <jhutz> ... I was the only doc author here, but all others were online and actively contributing
[00:48:36] --- tomphelan has become available
[00:48:40] <jhutz> smb: strategy I'll recommend
[00:48:54] <jhutz> smb: recommendation of bof was [argh i forget]
[00:48:57] <jhutz> ... issue doc as XXX
[00:49:04] <jhutz> ... probably spin up WG to do follow-on documents
[00:49:44] --- kdz has become available
[00:49:56] <jhutz> Presentation: AVISPA
[00:50:12] <jhutz> one author not able to attend; other presenting in geopriv;
[00:50:16] <jhutz> presenter here is covering for them
[00:50:41] <jhutz> SPEAKER: different groups dealing with different types of protocols: W3C, IETF, 3GPP, IEEE, etc
[00:50:51] <jhutz> ... they're doing a good job, but might need some help applying security
[00:51:00] <jhutz> ... even when perfect crypto algs being used, they may be used int he wrong way
[00:51:11] <jhutz> .... leads to high cost when sec needs to be repaired
[00:51:19] <jhutz> ... example WEP, geopriv
[00:51:30] --- xag has left
[00:51:33] <jhutz> .... requires experienced cryptographers, designers
[00:51:36] <jhutz> ...
[00:51:39] <jhutz> ... Project objectives:
[00:51:54] <jhutz> ...- develop a rich spec langauge for formalizing protocols and their qualities
[00:52:03] <jhutz> ... currently being done; language is called XXXX
[00:52:09] <jhutz> called. HEPSL
[00:52:33] <jhutz> ... -2- advance state ot art analyizing techniques to cope with requirements
[00:52:38] <jhutz> -3- develop toolset
[00:52:48] <jhutz> t...based on these tehcniques
[00:53:02] <jhutz> -4- tune and assess based on a large collection of practical, relevant protocols
[00:53:06] <jhutz> -5- [missed this]
[00:53:17] <jhutz> ... there's a wide range of protocols being developed
[00:53:34] <jhutz> ... candidates to be evaluated cover 11 different areas, 5 IP layers. >20 security goals
[00:53:36] <jhutz> ... areas
[00:53:44] <jhutz> infrastrucute(DHCP,DNS, BGP)
[00:53:46] <jhutz> network access
[00:53:54] <jhutz> mobilitiy voip messaging,presence
[00:54:02] <jhutz> security (ike,tls,kerberos,eap,etc)
[00:54:04] <jhutz> privacy
[00:54:11] <jhutz> aaa,identity management,sso
[00:54:18] <jhutz> security for qos,nat,firewall signalling
[00:54:23] <jhutz> broadcast/multicast
[00:54:26] <jhutz> ecommerce
[00:54:33] --- galvinjamesm has left: Replaced by new connection
[00:54:33] --- galvinjamesm has become available
[00:54:34] --- galvinjamesm has left
[00:54:36] <jhutz> parhaps: secure download, content protection (DRM)
[00:54:38] --- galvinjamesm has become available
[00:54:48] <jhutz> (last: eval depends on avail of docs describing)
[00:55:05] <jhutz> 5 layers in scope: application, middleware, transport, network, link
[00:55:37] <jhutz> ... different goals can be evaluated
[00:55:42] <jhutz> ... authentication, security
[00:55:44] <jhutz> key agreement
[00:55:48] <jhutz> anonymity
[00:55:52] <jhutz> non-0repudiation
[00:55:57] <jhutz> ... with already-available tools
[00:56:00] <jhutz> new goals:
[00:56:13] <jhutz> authorization, PFS, secure capabilities, identity protection,
[00:56:31] <jhutz> accountability, limited dos resistance, sender invariance, safety temporal property
[00:56:43] <jhutz> ... goal to provide a complete toolset with common user environment
[00:56:58] <jhutz> ... further protocools not covered covered
[00:57:18] <jhutz> slide - coverage of established ietf security specifications
[00:58:16] <jhutz> AVISPA covers 86% (24 of 36) of sec protocols listed in rfc2316, rfc3631, auth-mec
[00:58:30] <jhutz> ... new arch, protocols offer new challenges
[00:58:43] <jhutz> ..... tesk of formal method to provide some abstraction
[00:58:54] <jhutz> ... many identities
[00:58:57] <jhutz> ... locations
[00:59:01] <jhutz> ... many types of dos attacks
[00:59:19] <jhutz> ... new types of security properties - dos resistance, key control, pfs, layered properties
[00:59:33] <jhutz> ... if attacker "weak", can guarantee XXX
[00:59:36] <jhutz> ... if "strong", less
[00:59:40] <jhutz> conclusions:
[00:59:55] <jhutz> ... the standardization orgs can leverage results from avispa to avoid delays in process
[01:00:00] <jhutz> and errors in deployed standards
[01:00:15] <jhutz> .... facilitated through automated toolset
[01:00:29] <jhutz> ... our candidates cover - 5 layers, most areas almost all security goals
[01:00:42] <jhutz> ... 86% of "recommended" IETF security protocols
[01:00:56] <jhutz> further information: http://www.tachofenig.com/avispa/
[01:01:10] <jhutz> ... if you have further recommendations, security protocols,properties, please get in contact
[01:01:38] <jhutz> russ:
[01:01:54] <jhutz> russ: since we met last, we've noticed a couple of efforts that need some look
[01:02:07] <jhutz> NSIS, NEMO, MULTI6, NETCONF, MARID, others?
[01:02:18] <jhutz> ... hoping some people here might know what's going on the groups listed
[01:02:29] <jhutz> ... other groups sometimes get into security trouble and don't know it
[01:02:39] <jhutz> ... if we can help them out (early), it's less disruptive for them and AD's
[01:02:57] <jhutz> smb: NSIS - next steps in signalling (rsvp++) - controlling network elements, requesting bandwitdth
[01:03:06] <jhutz> in complex ways. authent, authz requirements "interesting"
[01:03:12] <jhutz> ... they're going to have to pay a lot of attention
[01:03:17] <jhutz> ... if you have an ineterst, talk to AD's
[01:03:27] <jhutz> NEMO: network mobilitiy... has asked for security review
[01:03:37] <jhutz> MIC: I didn't know anything until about 15min ago.
[01:03:41] <jhutz> ... we talked about as rsvp++
[01:03:52] <jhutz> ... actually want to do almost midcom-like signalling for sip-like protocols
[01:04:06] <jhutz> ... makes me nervous, if they beleive they're building a SIP app firewall notification thing
[01:04:27] <jhutz> tom thalen: some familiarity with NSIS; certainly considering building firewall nat xxx
[01:04:34] <jhutz> smb: NEMO - network mobility - has asked for review
[01:04:41] <jhutz> MULTI6: multihoming for IPv6
[01:04:46] <jhutz> ... fair number of proposals on table
[01:04:49] <jhutz> ... security implications
[01:04:55] <jhutz> ... some use crypto tricks
[01:05:01] <jhutz> ... will require ongoing secuirty attention
[01:05:12] <jhutz> hartmans: another thing to consider is it seems that multi6 is in the middle of the
[01:05:16] <jhutz> endpoint locator debate...
[01:05:19] <jhutz> smb: come to plenary
[01:05:32] <jhutz> hartmans: it may be that decisions affecting that have a significant impact on that WG
[01:05:49] <jhutz> .. I'm not saying we should mob the WG and say you must adopt solution that improves sec of internet
[01:06:04] <jhutz> ... but having a balanced view, recognize this is an architecture change; gives us a chance to look
[01:06:15] <jhutz> ... at general security implications; balance needs for security against their requirements
[01:06:33] <jhutz> ... would be good if security people could start following that; be involved enough to make useful contributions
[01:06:44] <jhutz> smb: NETCONF: network configuration... using ssh... don't know more yet
[01:06:51] <jhutz> ... shouldn't be troublesome, but...
[01:06:59] <jhutz> ... just learned that was part of plans
[01:07:33] <jhutz> MARID: putting records in DNS to help prevent and/or trace spam
[01:07:53] <jhutz> ... spammers are "enemy #1"; responsible for hacking/worms; have made hacking a profitable activity
[01:08:08] <jhutz> ... if we're going to deploy tech to prevent this, it needs to be _strong_ tech
[01:08:24] <jhutz> ... asked by patrik faltstrom to get sec people involved early
[01:08:46] <jhutz> ... for example, if people put policy stuff in DNS, will spammers put stuff there that will hurt
[01:09:05] --- tomphelan has left: Disconnected.
[01:09:09] <jhutz> ... for example, one suggestion involved a DNS rec containing a URL to policy, which might involve jave and javascript programs!
[01:09:28] <jhutz> paul hoffman: There's been a lot of heavy activity in this area...
[01:09:37] <jhutz> ... this has already taken off in many people's mind
[01:09:46] <jhutz> ... not only because outsiders who think -01 draft is a standard
[01:09:59] --- kdz has left
[01:10:03] <jhutz> ... but also people think since it's spam, dropping a little security is OK
[01:10:22] <jhutz> paul: propose getting a couple of security people specifically talking ot patrik, not the WG;
[01:10:47] <jhutz> this is a WG where if you say "you have a security problem" they will say "we don't care"
[01:11:11] <jhutz> ... we've already seen people say "that's a small security issue; if I fix it will help the spammers, 'YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP THE SPAMMERS'"
[01:11:25] <jhutz> [XXX]: unfortunately, v6ops is meeting right now, talking about security
[01:11:32] --- dumdidum has become available
[01:11:40] <jhutz> rfc2401bis discussion - ICMP v6 analogy
[01:11:50] <jhutz> .... ICMP does a lot more in V6
[01:11:58] <jhutz> ... original V6 RFC's said "use ipsec"
[01:12:00] <hartmans> xxx -> Richard Graves (sp?) , I believe
[01:12:01] --- tomphelan has become available
[01:12:04] <jhutz> ... one issue; there are others
[01:12:26] <jhutz> smb: neighbor discovery - it just doesn't work to use IPsec; classic exmaple why
[01:12:31] <jhutz> "just use IPsec" doesn't do it
[01:12:54] <jhutz> gregory leibovitz: thaler has a load-balancing for gateway issue, which suggests
[01:13:07] --- xag has become available
[01:13:08] <dumdidum> I just want to provide the correct link to the AVISPA presentation. Its http://www.tschofenig.com/avispa/
[01:13:08] <jhutz> ... hosts MUST load balance by default
[01:13:16] <jhutz> ... if gateway keeps state; this could be hard
[01:13:27] <jhutz> [XXX] from korea: working on home network stuff
[01:13:42] <jhutz> ... very difficult to get things that can be deployed all over
[01:13:56] <jhutz> ... many different security requirements in different devices
[01:14:17] <jhutz> ... is it possible for saag to think about security issues for home network
[01:14:52] <jhutz> ... second issue... NEMO talks aobut mobility... sec people need to understand what NEMO is about. how do we cooperate?
[01:15:12] <jhutz> russ: responding to first question
[01:15:22] <jhutz> ... only activity we have going on now that might address home network is enroll,
[01:15:36] <jhutz> ... which would have to do with introduction of a device to master management device
[01:15:46] <jhutz> .. if you have ideas about other work, we can talk about a charter
[01:16:05] <jhutz> wrt second question: normally pretty informal; group may ask for a sec area advisor, who will
[01:16:12] <jhutz> work with them and/or bring things to this (saag) WG
[01:16:25] <jhutz> smb: one of things secdir has said clearly is they want involvement as early as possible;
[01:16:37] <jhutz> ... that's when it's possible to spot difficult architectural issues
[01:16:50] <jhutz> ... sometimes not aware early enough; that's one of the reasons we have this sessioin (saag)
[01:17:10] <jhutz> One of the things we've been pushing is a draft byt ekr "boxes and arrows" - high level description
[01:17:27] <jhutz> of design of a system; tells you something about trust relationships; helps figure out where authorization decisions belong
[01:18:19] <jhutz> ... one of the problems with multi6; it doesn't work to assume a single global PKI for all nodes
[01:18:30] <jhutz> if folks know of things going on, let us know
[01:18:45] <jhutz> russ: on the other hand, secure BGP requires some central PKI, but clearly it doesn't go to every host
[01:19:23] <jhutz> [WHO IS THIS]: IEEE 802.16(?) has chosen to reference EAP as an auth method
[01:19:31] <jhutz> .. basically a good idea; their existing one sucked
[01:19:31] --- falk has become available
[01:19:44] <jhutz> ... I don't feel we've been duly diligent in establishing that we're using EAP correctly
[01:19:50] <sommerfeld> remind us what .16 is?
[01:20:02] <jhutz> ... would like to know where/how we got to correct experts to establish correct usage
[01:20:09] <jhutz> [I don't know]
[01:20:21] <jhutz> russ: particularly thorny issue
[01:20:30] <jhutz> ... you'd think EAP would be in the SEC area, but it's not
[01:20:39] <Bill> Type "802.16" into google and hit "I'm feeling lucky"?
[01:20:45] <jhutz> ... "in the seams" between areas; add additional policial stress
[01:20:50] <jhutz> ... community needs to focus on this
[01:21:01] <jhutz> ... eap is flexible; supports everything from crap to really good stuff
[01:21:06] <Bill> The IEEE 802.16 Working Group on Broadband Wireless Access Standards develops standards and recommended practices to support the development and deployment of broadband Wireless Metropolitan Area Networks.
[01:21:11] <jhutz> .. need to help people do more of the latter,less of the former
[01:21:27] <jhutz> david black: I'm chair of RDDP. We're going to be working through how to use IPsec
[01:21:35] --- Ted Faber has become available
[01:21:37] <jhutz> ... rddp sits between layer 4/5
[01:21:59] <jhutz> russ: you're going to do ipsec on udp
[01:22:13] <jhutz> david: no; you're going to have ipsec down in the layer3 making sure things go right
[01:23:00] <jhutz> russ: I'd worry about how your "layer 5" identities are going to map to layer 3 identities
[01:23:09] <jhutz> davide: probably will be left to higher-layer protocols
[01:23:24] <jhutz> smb: you'll also have to worry about api issues;
[01:23:35] <jhutz> ... not many platforms support the kind of granularity you'll need there
[01:23:59] <jhutz> david: another outside item - T11 (essentially ANSI) working on adapting IPsec to fiberchannel
[01:24:04] <jhutz> ... more talented brainpower wouldn't hurt
[01:24:39] <jhutz> o-in jeon (sp): all your security work is focused on a layer higher than layer 3
[01:24:52] <jhutz> ... as far as homenet devices are concerned, lots of lower layer issues
[01:25:08] <jhutz> ... if you're focusing on above layer 3, we also need to go to ieee or someone
[01:25:15] <jhutz> ... this is a complicated world
[01:25:19] <jhutz> ... is this the right place
[01:25:28] --- sakai has become available
[01:25:35] <jhutz> smb: it is a conscious decision in IETF that things at IP layer or above are our work;
[01:26:00] <jhutz> ... if it's only layer 2, it's not our work. usually the closest we come is "how do you do IP over such-and-such a layer2 device"
[01:26:10] <jhutz> ... also more about things on the wider internet; not just the lan
[01:26:23] <jhutz> ... but more and more we take the view that nothing stays on the lan; everything will appear on the net
[01:26:34] <jhutz> ... basically anything below layer 3 not done in the ietf
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[01:26:44] <jhutz> ... if you have app-level protocols for these devices, that belongs here
[01:27:00] <jhutz> ... if you're talking about how to talk over power lines, etc, that's not our work
[01:27:18] <jhutz> jeon: can I suggest creation of a WG to think about home networking architecture
[01:27:24] <jhutz> smb: come talk to us after the session
[01:27:33] <jhutz> [YYY]: comment and answer...
[01:27:39] <jhutz> ... there are several other orgs dealing with home networks
[01:27:48] <jhutz> ... one is "digital home working group" (not an IETF WG)
[01:27:54] <jhutz> ... places like [???]
[01:28:15] <Bill> uPNP forum was one
[01:28:17] <jhutz> shep: HIP working group going now
[01:28:32] <jhutz> ... HIP is on a pretty short fuse; goal is to pretty quickly produce "experimental" protocols
[01:28:52] <jhutz> ... also of interest - at this IETF, there was an IRTF BOF for a HIP RG "hiprr"; will not
[01:29:12] <jhutz> ... necessarily get chartered in IRTF. We've been told there will either be a HIP RG or an ID/locator split RG
[01:29:13] <Ted Faber> Current speaker == Tim Shepard
[01:29:16] <jhutz> russ: come to the plenary
[01:29:25] <jhutz> shep: multi6 is only one item on this list...
[01:29:39] <jhutz> ... there are 25 unexpired current ID's that have multi6 in the name of the file, not including hi
[01:29:41] <jhutz> hip
[01:29:47] <jhutz> ... there's an incredible amount of stuff to read
[01:29:59] <jhutz> ... they are discussing a number of significant changes to architecture
[01:30:17] <jhutz> ... just a couple security people paying attention will not be enough bandwidth
[01:30:26] <jhutz> smb: any other issues
[01:30:27] <jhutz> ?
[01:30:30] <jhutz> [any from here?]
[01:30:53] <jhutz> warlord: we're 30mi from a DNZ and haven't been killed yet
[01:30:59] <jhutz> smb: see you in san diego, on the mailing list
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[01:31:08] <warlord> DMZ., not DNZ
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[01:31:51] <jhutz> sorry; that was a typo
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[01:32:11] <jhutz> and it should be recognized that we mean in the military sense, not the networking sense
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