IETF
saag
saag@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, November 8, 2018< ^ >
Martin Thomson has set the subject to: SAAG AT IETF102 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/agenda-102-saag-01
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[06:50:06] <Sean Turner> Minutes @ https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-103-saag?useMonospaceFont=true
[06:50:10] <Sean Turner> Feel free to help
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[06:54:04] dkg has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF 103 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/agenda-103-saag
[06:54:09] <dkg> i'm your jabber scribe today
[06:54:26] <dkg> please prefix with mic: if you want me to voice
[06:54:33] <dkg> ace sent a report 30 seconds ago
[06:54:57] <dkg> on "Related WGs" slides
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[06:55:21] <dkg> karen odonoghue at the mic
[06:55:31] <dkg> dave thaler at the mic about dnssd
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[06:55:59] <dkg> leif johansson at the mic
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[06:56:30] <dkg> stephen farrell at the mic
[06:56:47] <dkg> paul hoffman at the mic
[06:57:37] <dkg> kathleen moriarty at the mic
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[06:58:12] <dkg> on slide BoFs
[06:58:29] <dkg> on slide Presentations
[06:59:04] <dkg> in hannes' presentation
[06:59:10] <dkg> on slide "Agenda"
[06:59:54] <dkg> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-saag-iot-benchmarking-00
[07:01:32] <dkg> on slide 3
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[07:02:27] <dkg> on slide 4
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[07:03:48] <dkg> on slide 5
[07:04:32] <dkg> on slide 6
[07:04:37] <dkg> "Actual Hardware Setup"
[07:05:32] <dkg> on slide 8
[07:06:51] <dkg> on slide 9
[07:07:32] <dkg> on slide 10
[07:08:25] <dkg> on slide 11
[07:08:41] <dkg> (last slide)
[07:09:37] <dkg> sean turner at the mic
[07:10:51] <dkg> alexander mayrhofer at the mic
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[07:14:17] <dkg> on "Calls for Assistance" slide
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[07:14:24] <dkg> Saulo Da Silva at the mic
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[07:17:15] <dkg> now's your chance!
[07:17:24] <Rich Salz> I recommend folks look at his hotRFC slides.https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-hotrfc-11-routing-storm-a-problem-for-aviation-and-ietf-00
[07:17:26] <dkg> if you want me to relay to the room, please prefix with MIC:
[07:17:33] <dkg> paul wouters at the mic
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[07:18:44] <dkg> yoav nir at the mic
[07:18:53] <dkg> whoops, not yoav yet
[07:19:59] <dkg> still paul wouters
[07:20:32] <dkg> yoav nir at the mic
[07:21:17] <dkg> paul wouter responds
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[07:21:56] <dkg> Hannes Tschofenig at the mic
[07:22:54] <dkg> Sean Turner at the mic
[07:24:13] <dkg> Dmitry Belyavskiy at the mic
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[07:26:59] <dkg> Kathleen Moriarty at the mic
[07:27:18] <jhoyla> We already say we don’t consider wiretapping requirements in RFC2804
[07:27:45] <jhoyla> The proposed document isn’t much more than that
[07:28:18] <dkg> paul wouters replies
[07:28:46] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> When can I move to Paulistan?
[07:28:48] <dkg> jhoyla: are you in the room again?  or do you want me to exercise jabber scribe privs to skip the line?
[07:29:11] <dkg> kathleen is back again
[07:29:14] <jhoyla> I’m in the room, I just didn’t think it worth shouting out to the entire room
[07:29:40] <dkg> mike rogers (NSA) at the mic, cuts the line
[07:29:49] <dkg> mike jenkins, sorry!
[07:31:54] <dkg> Dan Harkins at the mic
[07:32:41] <dkg> stephen farrell at the mic
[07:32:58] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> No, Stephen, you can't kick the ISE.  At least not here.
[07:33:49] <dkg> Wes Hardaker at the mic
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[07:34:38] <dkg> we don't publish all sorts of stuff
[07:34:54] <sftcd> yep, we should say "no" more often really
[07:35:39] <jhoyla> We also have RFC 7258
[07:36:05] <jhoyla> Which says we should not allow pervasive monitoring
[07:36:10] <sftcd> btw, I figure there's not much chance we'd reach consensus on a document in this space, but I'd read a draft if someone tried
[07:36:14] <dkg> does wes really think it's censorship if ISE declines to publish my home recipes?
[07:36:31] <Kyle Rose> I think there's some confusion about the "we" here. At the IETF, "we" choose not to publish stuff all the time. The ISE can also choose to publish or not publish stuff, but the "we" that includes the entire RFC series doesn't give the IETF a veto. I don't like the way Wes phrased it because I don't think censorship is quite the right way to describe the sort of discretion that the IETF engages in.
[07:36:34] <jhoyla> We also have RFC 3935 which says we’re not value neutral, so we aren’t just a neutral publisher
[07:36:43] <dkg> Vasily Dolmatov at the mic
[07:36:44] <Kyle Rose> @dkg +1
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[07:37:59] <jhoyla> @krose Good point, but the IETF can say we don’t like things, even if we didn’t publish them
[07:38:01] <sftcd> there are costs and additional vulns the more options that end up being supported, and suites like suite-B etc don't only cost commercial vendors who sell in the US
[07:38:55] <dkg> Ben Kaduk at the mic line
[07:39:16] <Kyle Rose> @jhoyla Sure, but given the lack of a veto, the publication of a "do not publish" recommendation to the ISE is pointless. Better to do what TLS is doing and have a registry of WG-recommended suites.
[07:40:14] <dkg> adrian farrel, independent stream editor
[07:40:41] <Kyle Rose> ("I don't get paid enough to deal with your shit" - Adrian Farrel)
[07:41:09] <jhoyla> @krose, that is probably the best strategy.
[07:41:12] <Kyle Rose> (That is a joke. He didn't actually say that.)
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[07:42:35] <jhoyla> If anyone says “it is known to be not broken” they are far braver than I am.
[07:44:35] <dkg> jhoyla: yeah, i've never heard any cryptographer say that, ever
[07:44:56] <Kyle Rose> Except for one-time pad.
[07:45:04] <dkg> heh, right
[07:45:10] <jhoyla> I’ve read about lots of cryptographers in the past who did.
[07:45:14] <jhoyla> They usually lost the war
[07:45:28] <Kyle Rose> In the long run, those wars are all lost.
[07:45:32] <dkg> seems like a good way to secure a legacy (not the kind of legacy most cryptographers want)
[07:45:38] <dkg> rich salz at the mic
[07:45:49] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> two cars, I heard
[07:45:49] <jhoyla> @dkg 😂
[07:45:57] <Kyle Rose> Didn't he learn after the first one?
[07:46:09] <dkg> paul hoffman at the mic
[07:46:16] <sftcd> some damage was described at the IEPG meeting Sunday
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[07:48:27] <dkg> yoav nir at the mic
[07:49:27] <dkg> anyone else?
[07:49:29] <Kyle Rose> going once...
[07:49:30] <dkg> last chance
[07:49:32] <Kyle Rose> going twice...
[07:49:42] <Kyle Rose> that's a wrap!
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