IETF
secdispatch
secdispatch@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, March 20, 2018< ^ >
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[09:20:48] <ted.h> If you would like something reflected to the room, please put "MIC:" in front.  I will reflect it to the room for you.
[09:20:57] <nightwatchcyber> thanks, ted
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[09:34:08] synp has set the subject to: SecDispatch @ IETF 101 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/agenda-101-secdispatch-03
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[09:47:32] <sftcd> fwiw, +1 to mnot's comment about AD sponsored being suitable for this
[09:48:42] <Yakov Shafranovich> the format is technically machinable readable since it uses mail headers like fields
[09:49:39] <ted.h> Reminder: if you would like something reflect to the room, preface it with mic:
[09:50:06] <synp> It looks like tag-colon-ws*-value.  Easily readable by both humans and machines.
[09:51:20] <Yakov Shafranovich> MIC: it is machinable readable since it uses mailing field like conventions
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[09:52:59] <synp> I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but this format is infinitely extensible
[09:53:04] <sftcd> richard needs to eat the mic a bit more (from the back of the room audio perspective)
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[09:53:57] <Yakov Shafranovich> @synp - IANA registry does require expert review, so it s not entirely a free for all
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[09:54:20] <hildjj> i was waiting for someone to suggest DNSsec.
[09:55:01] <Thom Peterson> it appears fixed
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[09:56:34] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> If you have robots reading it, do you trust the robots to rate-limit
what they send?
[09:59:53] <Yakov Shafranovich> that's an known issue for robots.txt also
[09:59:55] <Yakov Shafranovich> you don't
[10:01:01] <Yakov Shafranovich> MIC: there is extensiblity in the draft with an IANA registry FYI
[10:01:10] <Yakov Shafranovich> and expert review
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[10:02:35] <Yakov Shafranovich> thank you!
[10:02:43] <Martin Thomson> ahh, the shame of having just voted
[10:02:53] <Martin Thomson> the right outcome though, at least in my opinion
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[10:03:51] <hildjj> if the people who wanted a working group felt strongly about that, they should make sure the ADs understand why.
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[10:04:49] <Barry Leiba> I'm quite sure we didn't adequately address the issue Paul raised.
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[10:05:06] <Barry Leiba> But I'm also sure that Paul can bring it up again during Last Call.
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[10:06:16] <ted.h> If this is for humans and not internationalized, then I believe instructions to the expert that extensions should be to make sure they do not require specific human language understanding.  But I'm happy to make that as a last call comment.
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[10:06:28] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> The ADs could ask Paul for a review while considering sponsorship, as
well.
[10:06:44] <Barry Leiba> Indeed; good approach.
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[10:12:46] <jyasskin> What's a clarifying question again?
[10:12:55] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> PHB is off topic, no?
[10:14:20] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Supply an OCSP staple that's valid for as long as the cert; done?
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[10:26:04] <Martin Thomson> this doesn't need a document here
[10:27:14] <Martin Thomson> CABF can change their rules, that's all that needs to happen
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[10:38:01] <jyasskin> Sleevi says the CABF has declined to allow short-lived certs to omit the OCSP responder in the past. Of course that doesn't prevent them from allowing it in the future.
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[10:55:37] <Melinda> I'm not sure I'd go forward under the assumption that CA/B Forum is likely to change much.  The pendulum will swing at some point but they've been tending to become more restrictive rather than less.  At any rate the draft contains some language about CAs that in reality just isn't going to change - logging certificate issuance, etc.
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[11:01:21] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Is this not something that you learn in elementary schools everywhere?
[11:01:35] <Jonathan Lennox> Australians can make anything dirty.
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[11:02:27] <synp> RFC 1751 has an earlier version of trust words. I once got this string from it: HERO JAKE LAID JAIL BAIT GLAD
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[11:06:27] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Truth in random numbers?
[11:06:34] <synp> RFC 1751 had only 1024 words
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[11:08:11] <hildjj> The spec I referenced: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0163.html
[11:08:23] <jyasskin> How severe a problem is it to have different numbers of words per language?
[11:09:48] <ted.h> Cluster 238 laughs at your eyechart.
[11:09:59] <synp> Not too severe. It would mean more words in some languages than others.
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[11:10:35] <synp> Sorry. That wasn't clear - if a language has less trustwords, then the fingerprint would have to contain more words
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[11:10:53] <Mustapha SABA> that is not the problem, it is the solve of the problem
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[11:13:16] <jyasskin> synp: Yep. Code complexity goes up a bit, but it's probably ok.
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[11:14:48] <Martin Thomson> has PHB heard of identicons?
[11:15:01] <ekr> Is that what github uses?
[11:15:05] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Wasn't PHB just proposing a merkle tree and the actual data store in the
cloud because the multiple translations would be too big to keep in
local storage?
[11:15:12] <Martin Thomson> yeah, though those are low entropy images
[11:15:30] <Martin Thomson> demo: https://jdenticon.com/
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[11:28:11] <ted.h> Was this taken to TLS originally?
[11:28:19] <ekr> It was floated there.
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[11:28:23] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> There was some list discussion
[11:28:29] <ekr> But I think the general consensus is it was out of scope there
[11:29:06] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Around https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg24844.html
was the main thread IIRD
[11:29:15] <ted.h> I'll go look for the thread to see why, because it seems like it would be in scope, just to get the analysis done that Stephen suggested for yesterday's proposal.
[11:29:31] <ted.h> Thanks for the pointer
[11:29:51] <ekr> Hmm…. This seems oretty different
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