IETF
secdispatch
secdispatch@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, March 25, 2019< ^ >
synp has set the subject to: SecDispatch @ IETF 103 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/agenda-103-secdispatch-05
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[12:49:52] <joehallCDT> Hello!
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[12:49:56] <joehallCDT> Jabber Scribe here
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[12:50:25] <joehallCDT> Note the Note Well!
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[12:50:44] synp has set the subject to: SecDispatch @ IETF 104 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/agenda-104-secdispatch-04
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[12:52:18] <joehallCDT> Introducing a new chair, Kathleen Moriarty
[12:52:26] <Rich Salz> Notes being taken on etherpad https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/secdispatch-104
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[12:53:27] <joehallCDT> I should have requested AOB time for a quick discussion of our censorship draft, apologies
[12:53:35] <joehallCDT> speaking now is Miles McCain
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[12:53:59] <joehallCDT> (2.1) Distributing OpenPGP Keys with Signed Keylist Subscriptions
draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mccain-keylist
presenter: Miles McCain*
background: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/3C0fhVxGoC3KUi6zKtinceJzqW8
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[13:02:25] <joehallCDT> ekr at the mic
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[13:03:12] <joehallCDT> dkg at the mic
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[13:04:09] <joehallCDT> rlb asking dkg question about hash agility
[13:04:26] <Martin Thomson> if you want hash agility, make a new list format
[13:04:34] <joehallCDT> ben kaduk at the mic
[13:06:04] <joehallCDT> micah lee speaking
[13:06:54] <joehallCDT> ben kaduk with a follow-up
[13:07:56] <joehallCDT> micah again
[13:08:15] <joehallCDT> dkg at the mic
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[13:09:58] <Robert Miles McCain> We also consider allowing URLs to keys in lieu of fingerprints
[13:10:27] <Martin Thomson> You need the fingerprints, but URLs in *addition* might be OK
[13:10:34] <joehallCDT> +!
[13:10:37] <joehallCDT> +1
[13:11:13] <joehallCDT> that’s some bleak stuff, dkg
[13:11:16] <joehallCDT> ::)
[13:11:18] <Robert Miles McCain> Right—URLs for identification, fingerprints for verification
[13:11:19] <joehallCDT> ekr was just on mic
[13:11:22] <joehallCDT> dkg on mic again
[13:11:35] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> dkg has experienced many sorrows
[13:12:58] <joehallCDT> ekr on mic
[13:13:12] <Martin Thomson> a format that comprised a list of fingerprints plus a list of keys would be interesting
[13:13:26] <Martin Thomson> then you might have to update the blob when expirations change, but not the signature
[13:14:03] <joehallCDT> kaduk on mic
[13:14:12] <metricamerica> aka source authentication
[13:15:33] <Martin Thomson> as in Sign([fingerprint, ...]) || [key, key, ...]
[13:16:14] <joehallCDT> kaduk on mic
[13:16:47] <joehallCDT> Leif on mic
[13:17:42] <joehallCDT> Roman on mic
[13:18:50] <joehallCDT> next talk
[13:18:51] <joehallCDT> (2.2) JSON Canonicalization Scheme (JCS)
draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rundgren-json-canonicalization-scheme
presenter: Anders Rundgren
background: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/UHnVM_tzXh_s1WziznIiWVNSC4A
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[13:19:42] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> (they don't need detatched signatures for what they currently have)
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[13:24:17] <joehallCDT> watson ladd at mic
[13:25:22] <joehallCDT> matt miller at mic
[13:26:27] <joehallCDT> Yoav just speaking
[13:27:36] <joehallCDT> brett jordan at mic
[13:28:19] <joehallCDT> ekr at mic
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[13:30:12] <joehallCDT> m&m at the mic
[13:31:28] <joehallCDT> lief at the mic
[13:31:49] <joehallCDT> carsten b at the mic
[13:33:07] <joehallCDT> (2.3) MASQUE, obfuscating networking applications behind an HTTPS web server
draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schinazi-masque
presenter: David Schinazi
background: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/pG11oYDZTtH97iFebtQceXaSfS8
[13:33:12] <joehallCDT> next talk
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[13:45:35] <joehallCDT> mt at the mic
[13:45:59] <joehallCDT> martin thompson at the mic
[13:47:57] <sftcd> +1 to MT, this is worth someone working on and coming back later when it's more baked
[13:47:57] <joehallCDT> dkg at mic
[13:48:06] <joehallCDT> +1 to MT, sftcd
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[13:49:01] <joehallCDT> kathleen moriarty at the mic
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[13:49:24] <Martin Thomson> My point was that David was making *claims* about properties that depended on having an answer to the traffic analysis question
[13:49:59] <joehallCDT> ben kaduk on mic
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[13:50:30] <joehallCDT> (2.4) Security and Privacy Implications of Numeric Identifiers Employed in Network Protocols
draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-predictable-numeric-ids
presenter: Fernando Gont
background: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/CXuvV5pW3Wik7Yl1fChZiNPkMwQ
[13:50:30] <Martin Thomson> Yes, we tend to pretend that traffic analysis is not a problem.  But we don't claim any special properties in that regard.  David did.
[13:51:37] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> David even claimed that he could set up one of these servers for his
buddy in a foreign country and "not know what they're looking at",
which is a bit hard to swallow
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[14:01:47] <joehallCDT> kaduk at the mic
[14:03:01] <joehallCDT> dkg at the mic
[14:03:29] <joehallCDT> kaduk on mic
[14:03:45] <sftcd> bcp107 anyone?
[14:04:03] <joehallCDT> roman at the mic
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[14:05:22] <joehallCDT> watson ladd at the mic
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[14:05:42] <joehallCDT> dkg at the mic
[14:06:50] <joehallCDT> dkg at mic
[14:08:49] <Martin Thomson> do we have any confidence that this document is complete?
[14:08:49] <joehallCDT> (not sure) at the mic
[14:08:58] <Martin Thomson> has it been tested against recent specs with identifiers?
[14:09:07] <joehallCDT> kaduk at the mic
[14:09:14] <Martin Thomson> the (not sure) was daniel migault
[14:09:16] <synp> That was Daniel Migault
[14:09:20] <joehallCDT> tyvm!
[14:09:31] <joehallCDT> roman at the mic
[14:10:11] <joehallCDT> stephen farrell at the mic
[14:10:45] <joehallCDT> kaduk at mic
[14:13:01] <joehallCDT> (2.5) Concise IDs and CBOR Certificates
drafts:
  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-birkholz-core-coid
  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raza-ace-cbor-certificates
presenter: Carsten Bormann, John Mattsson
background: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/CGlf3NB2yhLyRgpyBpogPzi3CDQ
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[14:19:23] <joehallCDT> John Mattsson now speaking
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[14:25:31] <joehallCDT> gerry at the mic
[14:25:35] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Giri Mandyman at mic
[14:25:41] <joehallCDT> ty
[14:27:26] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> mohit sethi
[14:27:26] <joehallCDT> mohit at the mic
[14:27:59] <joehallCDT> sean turner at the mic
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[14:29:10] <joehallCDT> sean turner
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[14:32:58] <joehallCDT> (didn’t catch this person’s name)
[14:33:07] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> This is Henk.
[14:33:27] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> (Birkholz)
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[14:34:49] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Henk is doing an even better job of selling me that this would need to
be a dedicated WG than ekr and sftcd did :)
[14:35:05] <joehallCDT> max pala at the mic
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[14:35:57] <Jonathan Lennox> I thought DER was supposed to produce a unique encoding. Are people signing X.509 certs that aren't actually valid DER?
[14:36:29] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> yes
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[14:37:33] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I didn't catch the name that sean said
[14:37:46] <joehallCDT> (didn’t catch this person’s name at the mic)
[14:37:53] <metricamerica> goren selander
[14:39:22] <metricamerica> what was the resolution?
[14:39:36] <joehallCDT> draft:&nbsp;https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hall-censorship-tech-07
presenter: Joseph Lorenzo Hall
repo/issues:&nbsp;https://github.com/josephlhall/rfc-censorship-tech
(can someone take over Jabber scribe? thank you.)
[14:39:51] <joehallCDT> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hall-censorship-tech-07
[14:39:57] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> none of the fast-path dispatch options are applicable, so further
discussion with the ADs and potentially spinning up a WG
[14:40:10] <metricamerica> ty
[14:40:25] <sftcd> spin up wg or BoF? I'd hope the latter
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[14:40:29] <Wendy Seltzer> Joe Hall speaking
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[14:40:47] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I didn't quite catch what Richard said towards a point in space not
colocated with the microphone
[14:41:00] <sftcd> heh:-)
[14:41:05] <Sean Turner> @joehall: BER, DER, CER, PER, JER, XER :)
[14:41:35] <sftcd> @sean: wouldn't work I think - SANs don't compress well enough so you also need a cert profile
[14:41:59] <Sean Turner> I am all about a profile, but like don't drop the fields that are MTI
[14:42:07] <sftcd> I would!
[14:42:15] <Sean Turner> :)
[14:42:24] <sftcd> but only if it really might work and not just waste time/cycles
[14:43:16] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> chris wood
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