IETF
sipcore@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, 27 March 2012< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: SIPCORE | Minutes Pad http://etherpad.com/6nrLc0iakO
Room Configuration

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[14:32:33] <ibc> ¿qué le dice una impresora a otra?
[14:33:07] <jmillan> esta hoja es tuya, o es impresión mía?
[14:33:19] <ibc> coño
[14:46:45] kpfleming joins the room
[14:56:59] <ibc> hi Kevin, ready? :)
[15:02:23] <kpfleming> ibc: yep!
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[15:06:30] <kpfleming> trying to open the audio feed but it's failing. maybe i'm too early.
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[15:08:18] Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1) joins the room
[15:08:19] <saghul> kpfleming: i do hear background noise
[15:08:31] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> Pre-meeting discussions
[15:08:31] <kpfleming> ok, i'll try again
[15:08:41] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> I see three remote participants. Hello folks!
[15:08:58] <kpfleming> and now it's open, yay
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[15:09:11] <saghul> Hey Olle!
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[15:10:13] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> I am your host on the xmpp channel for this session
[15:10:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> If you need me to say anything, please prefix with mic: so I see that it's meant for the session and not just jabbering around. Thanks.
[15:10:40] <ibc> ey, I propose to make this chat session using SIMPLE, ok?
[15:11:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> :-)
[15:11:15] <ibc> please, enable RCS in your mobiles
[15:11:17] <saghul> lets have it complex
[15:11:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> Slide "Published since IETF 82"
[15:11:59] <ibc> Olle, is there a link to see the slides presentation in realtime? some webecho.xxx or whatever like in other sessions?
[15:11:59] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> slide "Other charter item status"
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[15:12:16] <kpfleming> ibc: nope
[15:12:20] <ibc> ok
[15:12:51] <ibc> m3u link for listening to the audio?
[15:12:52] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> slide "agenda"
[15:13:15] <saghul> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/83/slides/slides-83-sipcore-2.pdf
[15:13:19] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1)> Alan apologies for the date on the slides - November 15th 2011
[15:13:34] Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +1) is now known as oej-scribe
[15:13:44] <oej-scribe> —next presentation
[15:13:57] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg: Indication of features supported by proxy
[15:14:06] <oej-scribe> Slide #2 - since ietf #82
[15:15:49] <oej-scribe> Do you hear Christer clearly?
[15:15:58] <kpfleming> i do
[15:16:00] <oej-scribe> Slide "Feature-caps"
[15:16:13] <oej-scribe> Slide "Open ISSUE: Information for IANA registration..."
[15:16:19] <saghul> oej-scribe: loud and clear
[15:16:28] <oej-scribe> thx
[15:17:53] rbarnes joins the room
[15:18:05] <rbarnes> is someone scribing?
[15:18:18] <oej-scribe> Andrew talking
[15:18:19] <oej-scribe> Yes
[15:19:55] <oej-scribe> Parthra talking
[15:20:07] <oej-scribe> —spelling of names may be random, my apologies ---
[15:20:23] <kpfleming> it would be better if the chairs just asked people to speak their names at the mics
[15:20:42] <oej-scribe> He did...
[15:20:47] <kpfleming> thanks
[15:20:59] <oej-scribe> I mean - the speaker on the mic did say his name :-)
[15:22:06] <oej-scribe> Discussion between Christer and Parthra
[15:22:22] <oej-scribe> Queue at the microphones...
[15:22:37] <oej-scribe> Andrew again
[15:23:18] <oej-scribe> Adam Roach (propably not as chair - he's on the floor)
[15:23:53] <oej-scribe> Christer responding
[15:24:30] <oej-scribe> Adam talking again
[15:24:53] <oej-scribe> Keith Drage talking
[15:26:36] <oej-scribe> Andrew talking
[15:26:41] Cullen Jennings joins the room
[15:27:23] <oej-scribe> Robert Sparks talking
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[15:28:06] <oej-scribe> Oh no, example.com is back… They where evil in yesterdays presentations.
[15:28:07] <oej-scribe> :-)
[15:28:44] <oej-scribe> Adam Roach talking (not as chair I guess)
[15:28:56] <oej-scribe> We have a queue again...
[15:29:10] <oej-scribe> I guess that this slide is a hot topic :-)
[15:29:30] <rbarnes> example.com is official (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2606); evil.com is not!
[15:29:30] <oej-scribe> If anyone of you wants me to relay something, just prefix it with mic:
[15:29:57] <oej-scribe> No, yesterday someone made a correction so we should use evil.example.com since someone actually owns evil.com
[15:30:05] <oej-scribe> —Christer talking
[15:30:12] <oej-scribe> Adam discussing with Christer
[15:31:06] Cullen Jennings leaves the room
[15:31:10] <oej-scribe> Keith Drage on mic
[15:31:35] <oej-scribe> :: If you have audio issues, please tell me
[15:32:01] <jmillan> audio is ok, thanks
[15:32:19] <oej-scribe> Hadriel Kaplan on mic
[15:33:21] <oej-scribe> Paul (chair) talking
[15:34:47] <oej-scribe> Hadriel and Paul discussing life and tags
[15:35:17] <oej-scribe> Andrew again
[15:36:41] <oej-scribe> Robert Sparks talking
[15:37:04] <oej-scribe> We're still on the "OPEN ISSUE" slide
[15:37:25] <oej-scribe> Christer responding
[15:37:43] <rbarnes> are we getting to the end of christer's talk?
[15:38:01] <oej-scribe> I don't see thte slide numbers, guess we're using time
[15:38:08] <oej-scribe> Adam (no chair hat on) Roach talking
[15:39:02] <oej-scribe> We still have 7.7 minutes for Christer
[15:39:13] <oej-scribe> Andrew talking
[15:39:45] <oej-scribe> Adam (no hat) Roach talking
[15:40:13] <oej-scribe> Paul (chair) talking
[15:41:21] <oej-scribe> Keith Drage talking
[15:42:24] <oej-scribe> Hadriel talking
[15:44:00] mhp joins the room
[15:44:21] <oej-scribe> Welcome Michael. Your name was mentioned in the VIPR session :-)
[15:44:32] <mhp> oh dear!
[15:44:45] <mhp> I'll try to d/l the audio later and see what happened
[15:44:49] <oej-scribe> Robert Sparks talking
[15:45:04] <kpfleming> i really wish VIPR and SIPCORE hadn't conflicted, but i guess it's unavoidable with so many WGs meeting
[15:45:39] <oej-scribe> Vipr was before sipcore...
[15:45:56] <kpfleming> oh, right, it conflicted with AVTEXT
[15:46:02] <oej-scribe> yep
[15:46:06] <oej-scribe> Conflicts everywhere.
[15:46:32] <oej-scribe> RJSPARKS talking
[15:48:06] <oej-scribe> Christer responding
[15:48:14] <oej-scribe> Andrew
[15:48:33] <oej-scribe> Queues lining up
[15:49:07] <kpfleming> how much time is left on this topic?
[15:49:17] <oej-scribe> Minus a few minutes
[15:49:19] <kpfleming> we now have only 20 minutes left in the meeting
[15:49:30] <oej-scribe> Keith talking
[15:49:39] <oej-scribe> Victor is prepared for the next talk
[15:50:16] <oej-scribe> Paul (no hat) talking
[15:50:47] <oej-scribe> RObert Sparks talking
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[15:51:17] <oej-scribe> Slide: FEATURE-CAPS
[15:52:00] <oej-scribe> Hum coming
[15:52:19] <rbarnes> are we still on christer's talk (not in room)
[15:52:23] <oej-scribe> same table
[15:52:23] <rbarnes> ?
[15:52:24] <oej-scribe> Yes
[15:52:28] <oej-scribe> hum on same table
[15:52:29] <rbarnes> thx
[15:52:35] <oej-scribe> hum on separate table
[15:52:59] <oej-scribe> ————— Next talk
[15:53:05] <oej-scribe> SIP over Websockets
[15:53:15] <oej-scribe> Victor Pascual
[15:53:22] <oej-scribe> Slide: HISTORY (#2)
[15:53:51] <kpfleming> can someone ask him to speak up a bit?
[15:54:06] <oej-scribe> Done
[15:54:08] <oej-scribe> Better?
[15:54:15] <kpfleming> yep
[15:54:27] <oej-scribe> SLide — History - #2
[15:54:36] <oej-scribe> — Slide #3 Scope
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[15:55:23] <oej-scribe> — Slide #4 Scope
[15:55:26] <oej-scribe> partha talking
[15:56:52] <oej-scribe> Adam (without chair hat)
[15:56:54] <kpfleming> the draft *does* consider those use cases, and we've been talking about them on the list extensively
[15:57:19] <saghul> browsers will not listen for incoming connections
[15:57:27] <kpfleming> they better not :-)
[15:57:33] <oej-scribe> smartphone apps may
[15:57:39] <ibc> neither WebSocket stacks running in desktop or smartphones apps
[15:57:51] <saghul> oej-scribe: why not use TCP then?
[15:57:55] <oej-scribe> Salvatore Lorenzo speaking
[15:58:01] <saghul> WebSocket adds overhead
[15:58:11] <oej-scribe> saghul: dev kits used. people who love HTTP
[15:58:17] <oej-scribe> hadriel kaplan talking
[15:58:42] <ibc> websocket provides a message boundary protocol. If the mobile SO provides a WebSocket stack it makes life easier to app developers
[15:59:03] <kpfleming> TCP does as well.
[15:59:13] <kpfleming> at least when implemented properly :_)
[15:59:28] <ibc> right, we don't want to mandate mobile app developers to just use WebSocket :)
[15:59:33] <oej-scribe> More developers develop on HTTP than tcp today… Sadly
[15:59:51] <oej-scribe> Partha Ravindran talking
[16:00:01] <rbarnes> i still don't understand why this isn't just another transport
[16:00:06] <oej-scribe> Again - if you need me to relay something prefix with Mic:
[16:00:10] <oej-scribe> Bernard Aboba talking
[16:00:11] <kpfleming> rbarnes: isn't it?
[16:00:39] <oej-scribe> It's a definition of a new transport for SIP we're discussing
[16:00:49] <oej-scribe> Victor continuing
[16:00:58] <oej-scribe> slide "Problem statement" - #4
[16:01:31] <oej-scribe> slide "Solution sapce" - #5
[16:01:37] <oej-scribe> sorry for the latency
[16:01:44] <rbarnes> kpfleming: is that all this draft does? then why the controversy?
[16:02:08] <oej-scribe> Bernard Aboba speaking
[16:02:21] <kpfleming> rbarnes: good question. most of it on the list has been due to language in the draft that will likely become non-normative, about the nearly mandatory use of Outbound and GRUU because of the lack of ability to initiate connections to the WebSocket client.
[16:02:25] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg talking
[16:03:50] <ibc> mic: Christer you can already do that in the same way your servers/registrar reuse the SIP TCP connection opened by the client. But I think we should not re-define the core SIP protocol just for a new SIP transport (which is so similar to SIP over TCP)
[16:04:22] <oej-scribe> queued
[16:04:22] <kpfleming> mic: I agree with Inaki. This problem is not *new* to WebSocket, it already exists and the requirements have not changed.
[16:04:30] <oej-scribe> adam - no hat - talking
[16:04:59] <oej-scribe> queued #2
[16:05:11] <rbarnes> kpfleming: got it, thanks
[16:06:03] <kpfleming> yes, Outbound and GRUU both depend on registration.
[16:06:32] <oej-scribe> Hadriel kaplan talking
[16:06:46] <oej-scribe> Vijay Gurbani talking
[16:06:52] <ibc> mic: and since 2009 there is already a IETF RFC (5626 Outbound) solving these cases
[16:06:53] <oej-scribe> Hadriel back
[16:07:18] <oej-scribe> Vijay again
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[16:07:44] <kpfleming> oh yes they will :-)
[16:08:20] <oej-scribe> done - all requests
[16:08:31] <ibc> mic: hi
[16:08:37] <oej-scribe> (I hope - correct me if I'm wrong)
[16:08:56] <kpfleming> there is no conflict here, the discussion on the mailing list already agreed to move this language to non-normative
[16:09:29] <oej-scribe> Bernard talking
[16:10:04] <oej-scribe> Christer holmberg talking
[16:10:26] <oej-scribe> Opening pandora's box on GRUU. We have two minutes left.
[16:10:50] <oej-scribe> Lorenzo talking
[16:11:03] <kpfleming> and people say there is no humor in the IETF community...
[16:11:11] <oej-scribe> ;-)
[16:11:15] rbarnes leaves the room
[16:11:36] <oej-scribe> slide "Next steps" #6
[16:12:15] <oej-scribe> Adam Roach as not chair
[16:12:33] <kpfleming> mic: no, there is no need to mandate GRUU. it can be listed as a preferred implementation mechanism in the informative text.
[16:12:40] <ibc> mic: GRUU should be out of the scope IMHO, this is just a transport definition.
[16:13:01] <oej-scribe> Mic was closed before that, sorry
[16:13:03] <kpfleming> hum for adoption
[16:13:26] kpfleming did not sign the blue sheet
[16:13:26] <oej-scribe> That's all folks. Thanks for participating!
[16:13:33] <oej-scribe> ————— session closed ——---
[16:13:39] <mhp> Thanks Olle
[16:13:41] <oej-scribe> kpfleming: You will be warned.
[16:13:47] <oej-scribe> :-)
[16:13:48] <jmillan> Thank you Olle
[16:13:50] <saghul> thanks oej-scribe!
[16:13:53] <kpfleming> see you all in vancouver!
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