IETF
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Monday, March 19, 2018< ^ >
fenton has set the subject to: suit BOF: IETF 100
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[13:33:37] <mellon> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19h_OQiWSg8wvuxxuFA3Ig-Fs-pOp5EcOMhVKDBwTKH4/edit?usp=sharing
[13:34:25] <Joel Gogwim> Thanks
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[13:37:22] <Stephen Banghart> Hello everyone, I'll be the jabber scribe
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[13:37:51] <Stephen Banghart> if you have anything you want read aloud at the mic, please prepend it with "Mic:", thanks
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[13:39:58] <Mingliang Pei> is video on?
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[13:40:28] <Stephen Banghart> I can see the video
[13:41:05] <Mingliang Pei> i saw it now too. thx
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[13:48:41] <Stephen Banghart> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-suit-draft-zhu-suit-automatic-fu-arch-00-01
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[13:51:11] <Joel Gogwim> Video and Audio feed, crystal clear in JosNOG Nigeria
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[13:55:09] <Kerry Lynn> Let's move on?
[13:55:38] <Basavaraj Patil> Agree.  Power saving needs to be considered
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[14:01:19] <Kerry Lynn> Don't we run into a problem with the traditional definitions of "client" and "server"? I.e. client is the role that initiates?
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[14:02:16] <Kerry Lynn> Maybe better to say "device initiated" or "cloud initiated"?
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[14:03:40] <Stephen Banghart> To me, Client-Server is a little more flexible, for cases where the client and server may switch roles
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[14:09:58] <Kerry Lynn> I'd be interested to explore whether there's a relationship between OTA and secure bootstrapping.  I.e. are there use cases where the server may not even allow the client to connect unless it's at a particular rev level.
[14:10:18] <Kerry Lynn> There have been network admission schemes that work this way...
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[14:12:56] fenton has set the subject to: SUIT WG
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[14:17:55] <Stephen Banghart> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-suit-draft-moran-suit-architecture-03-00
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[14:22:34] <resnick> Just for the jabber room; I don’t need to bring this up at the mic: I’m not clear on the necessity of the second mode (push the manifest *and* the image). It would simplify the architecture if the device always retrieved the image. I understand the necessity of pushing the manifest; that’s just a notification.
[14:23:25] <resnick> (Just a query; I don’t have any skin in the game.)
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[14:24:03] <mellon> I think that the architecure is talking about what people might do, not saying what things they are permitted to do, so we can’t actually simplify in that way.
[14:24:13] <Stephen Banghart> I think the second case is for extremely contrained devices. A smart lightbulb just receives an update and applies right away, it doesnt need to capability to makes decisions about the timing
[14:24:47] <dthaler> @Pete, I think it covers some existing cases today.  E.g., directly copying a manifest+image to the device
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[14:24:59] <dthaler> Hannes just   showed that in a slide
[14:26:15] <resnick> Ah, so it’s not really about how constrained the device is as much as the update is so small that there’s no point in deferring the update. (If the update was big, even the lightbulb would want someway to defer the update, maybe even more than a more capable device.)
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[14:51:54] <Stephen Banghart> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-suit-chairs-slides-00
[14:51:59] <Stephen Banghart> Slide 10-ish
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[15:02:34] <mcr> resnick, knowing that there is a new image (by seeing a new manifest) tells the device that it might need to retrieve a (big) image.
[15:03:11] <mcr> This matters a LOT where bandwidth is limited (15.4 networks for instance).  
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[15:03:42] <resnick> Easier to just ask for objections than take two hums. But what do I know?
[15:04:20] <mcr> In some cases, the device manifest might imply that the device should *not* operate until it can get the image and upgrade. (Plant control systems come to mind)
[15:04:39] <mcr> resnick, I was going to say the same thing: if someone objects to the new document, I want to know why.
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[15:06:00] <dthaler> @pete, true if the chairs just want to confirm what we already think is the consensus
[15:06:14] <dthaler> will keep that in mind
[15:06:53] <resnick> Michael: The “manifest only” mode I totally get. It was the “manifest and image” that I didn’t understand. That’s the tiny image case. It keeps getting talked about as the constrained device case, but I don’t think that’s quite right.
[15:07:43] <resnick> @dave: No big deal either way. But I do like, “The chairs think we have consensus on this point. Are there any objections?” It cuts right to the chase, so to speak.
[15:08:17] <resnick> (And getting a loud hum of people in favor can be discouraging to people who might object, so it can slant the outcome.)
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[15:10:37] <dthaler> yep ttanks
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