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[13:05:29] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> TCP-secure (10 minutes) Anantha Ramaiah http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tcpm-tcpsecure-07.txt draft-ietf-tcpm-tcpsecure-07.txt
[13:05:34] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> (catching up)
[13:13:27] <mallman> the IPR point is that the IPR could have an impact on MUST v. SHOULD v. whatever
[13:13:42] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> FRTO update to proposed standard (10 minutes) Markku Kojo http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/sarolaht/frto/
[13:13:51] <mallman> i.e., i would personally be against saying a TCP MUST implement tcpsecure because it has an IPR statement
[13:14:29] <shep> mallman- good point
[13:14:57] <shep> (And I still wish there was an alternative we could use instead of the IPR-entangled stuff.)
[13:15:25] <gorryf> Yes - reduce IPR in MUST implement features
[13:18:05] <mallman> shep- i agree with your parenthetical
[13:18:09] <gorryf> Link to the non-id was: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/sarolaht/frto/draft-kojo-tcpm-frto-eval-00b.txt
[13:25:20] <shep> hmm... now I just thought of another issue about the so-called "tcpsecure" draft... Dave Thaler gave a talk in the tsvarea meeting earlier this afternoon describing the testing he (or his group) has done to figure out whether it is safe to turn on (1) ECN, (2) window scaling, (3) DSACK, and (4) F-RTO. Somewhat surprisingly, they found it was not yet safe to turn on ECN, nor safe to turn on window scaling (so both were turned off by default in Vista as shipped). I suspect that that we have (to date) almost no data on the safety of turning on the stuff in the tcpm-tcpsecure draft (in hosts in general).
[13:26:20] <shep> (actually, they found window scaling was safe if the value is 2 or less, so its enabled by default but limited to a shift value of 2)
[13:28:40] <gorryf> Were the data presented from ns2, real implementation?
[13:28:40] <shep> but regarding draft-ietf-tcpm-tcpsecure-07.txt, perhaps we need some caveat, because if there's some safety problem when talking to buggy TCP's out there, it can turn into a packet shooting war between two stacks (which over a path were the packet duplication rate exceeds the packet loss rate leads to an exponential growth packet storm).
[13:29:24] <shep> (GorryF--- are you asking me about my comments, or about the current speaker?)
[13:29:36] <gorryf> Sorry about the speaker
[13:33:20] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> Identifying Cheating Receivers (10 minutes) Toby Moncaster http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moncaster-tcpm-rcv-cheat-00.txt draft-moncaster-tcpm-rcv-cheat-00.txt
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[13:41:02] <gorryf> This seems to be running way late... a new meeting starts in 10 minutes... and people need to move to the rooms at 18:40
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[13:42:32] <shep> what's in this room next? I thought it was empty
[13:42:54] <gorryf> It is, but some people have other meetings (including one I have to Chair)
[13:43:08] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> you're closer to the mike than me :-)
[13:43:08] <gorryf> Do we have another minute taker for the last section>
[13:43:26] <gorryf> Ok
[13:44:16] <shep> Congress III (where we are sitting) has no meeting listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_agenda_html.cgi?meeting_num=68
[13:44:29] <shep> (in the next time slot)
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[13:47:11] <lars.eggert@googlemail.com> shep: yes, but people need to be elsewhere
[13:49:10] <shep> lars--- yeah, true, but we've already messed up there. Nothing to do now but let the last speaker give there talk, and we don't need to find another room to do that.
[13:49:17] <shep> s/there/their/
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