IETF
uta
uta@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, March 7, 2014< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[07:46:29] ilari.liusvaara joins the room
[08:32:57] yaron.sheffer joins the room
[08:36:17] Alessandro Amirante joins the room
[08:48:22] Hosnieh joins the room
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[08:55:28] Barry Leiba joins the room
[08:57:52] Yaron Sheffer joins the room
[09:00:13] kohei.kasamatsu130 joins the room
[09:00:22] kivinen joins the room
[09:00:43] stpeter joins the room
[09:01:08] <stpeter> we're starting
[09:01:12] renzoe joins the room
[09:01:15] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: Note Well
[09:01:18] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Channels
[09:01:41] <Barry Leiba> Those of you who are participating remotely…
[09:01:45] <Barry Leiba> …made the right choice.
[09:01:49] <stpeter> heh
[09:01:54] <Barry Leiba> The room is très packed.
[09:01:59] Rhys joins the room
[09:02:08] Joe Hildebrand joins the room
[09:02:14] resnick joins the room
[09:02:18] <Joe Hildebrand> You can always depend on the kindness of strangers
[09:02:23] Franck Martin joins the room
[09:02:26] <oej> Ok folks, I will be your relay today
[09:02:31] <stpeter> thanks oej!
[09:02:34] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4: Agenda
[09:02:44] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[09:02:56] <renzoe> thanks oej and Alessandro
[09:03:05] <oej> Please note that the Note Well applies to remote participation as well - read and understand! https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html
[09:03:23] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 5: Problem Statement
[09:03:34] <oej> The Agenda is here: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/uta/agenda
[09:03:36] <Alessandro Amirante> FYI, Meetecho is at www.meetecho.com/ietf89/uta
[09:03:48] <stpeter> oej: at the next IETF meeting we'll send an automated Note Well message to people when they join the chatroom...
[09:03:54] <oej> And Meetecho is a great way to participate if you're remote!
[09:04:03] <stpeter> yay Meetecho!
[09:04:12] <Alessandro Amirante> :)
[09:04:33] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 6: Mission Statement
[09:04:37] <oej> Orit Levin speaking (the chair)
[09:04:38] lepinski joins the room
[09:04:41] Markus Stenberg joins the room
[09:04:59] wseltzer joins the room
[09:05:02] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 7: Working Assumptions
[09:05:11] <oej> If you want me to relay to the mic, please prefix your statement with "relay: "
[09:05:47] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 8: Deliverables
[09:06:41] Kathleen Moriarty joins the room
[09:06:50] cabo joins the room
[09:07:11] linus joins the room
[09:07:47] Olafur Gudmundsson joins the room
[09:07:48] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[09:07:48] <oej> We need guidelines for document authors as well (personal opinion)
[09:09:20] <oej> The ISOC has added TLS to their Deploy360 programme too. That will help.
[09:09:32] <oej> Ping Dan York….
[09:09:39] <stpeter> ah, that's good about Deploy360
[09:09:47] <oej> Keith Moore speaking
[09:10:14] <oej> Aaron something after Keith, then Stephen Farrell
[09:12:08] <oej> "Improving security is important and the resason why we are here" - Keith Moore
[09:12:58] <oej> The line is growing. We have a packed room with a lot of people sitting on the floor and hanging in the window frames.
[09:13:09] <oej> Needless to say, we have no problem with cold air.
[09:13:17] resnick leaves the room
[09:13:19] <oej> Jari Aarko would have loved this sauna.
[09:13:32] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[09:13:34] <Barry Leiba> Oy
[09:14:26] <oej> Aaron Caplan
[09:14:32] <Barry Leiba> K
[09:14:35] <Barry Leiba> Kaplan
[09:14:47] <oej> Thx
[09:14:54] <Dan York> Yes, we'd like to help
[09:14:54] <oej> Stephen Farrell
[09:14:58] wseltzer we're demonstrating the problems with compression and security
[09:14:58] <Franck Martin> mic: It would be interesting to differentiate between SMTP-submission and SMTP between MTAs as categories as it seems so far documents in the agenda tends to handle the former and both are slightly different in implementation.
[09:15:06] <Yaron Sheffer> That was in what context? What protocol?
[09:15:10] <Franck Martin> I would walk to the mic, if I was not stuck
[09:15:11] <Dan York> (Sorry, I'm over in DNSOP on some DNSSEC issues.)
[09:15:26] <stpeter> oej?
[09:15:27] <oej> Peter - can you please help with relay?
[09:15:30] <stpeter> yes
[09:15:31] <stpeter> I can
[09:15:34] <oej> Thanks!
[09:15:42] <stpeter> Daniel Kahn Gillmor at the mic
[09:15:43] <oej> Aaron Kahn <something> speaking
[09:15:51] <oej> Franck Martin above requested relay.
[09:15:59] metricamerica joins the room
[09:16:16] <oej> Keith Moore (again)
[09:16:36] <oej> St Peter relaying Franck Martin
[09:16:45] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 9: Back to the Agenda
[09:16:46] <Franck Martin> thanks
[09:16:55] <Franck Martin> I have a nice voice :P
[09:16:57] lellel joins the room
[09:16:58] <Alessandro Amirante> Presentation stopped
[09:17:17] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 1: TLS Attacks
[09:17:31] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: TLS Attacks
[09:17:33] <oej> Peter Saint-Andre presenting
[09:17:43] cheshire joins the room
[09:18:00] <oej> "…based on events." - right.
[09:19:09] leifj joins the room
[09:19:48] <oej> Presentation: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-uta-4.pdf
[09:20:42] Stuart Cheshire joins the room
[09:20:45] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Best Practices
[09:21:09] resnick joins the room
[09:22:38] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4: XMPP / Template
[09:22:39] <oej> TLS 1.2 is the focus
[09:23:09] <oej> Yes, the XMPP document is a good template for other protcols. SIP come to my mind.
[09:23:46] <Yaron Sheffer> mic: to clarify, the TLS 1.2 ciper suites are not just because they're new and shiny. It's because unfortunately TLS 1.0/1.1 cipher suites are generally broken in several ways.
[09:23:54] <oej> Peter is done.
[09:24:40] <oej> Relayed.
[09:24:46] <Yaron Sheffer> thx
[09:24:49] <oej> Stephen Farrrel at mic
[09:24:51] <oej> np
[09:26:21] <oej> "Concentrate the BCP on the Best CURRENT practise" - SF
[09:26:28] <oej> Aaron Kahn Gillmor speaking
[09:26:39] <Barry Leiba> Daniel, not Aaron
[09:26:40] <oej> Apologize if I mistakenly spell names incorrect.
[09:26:53] <oej> Exactly Barry :-)
[09:27:09] <Barry Leiba> Names are really difficult.
[09:27:32] <Andrew Sullivan> yes, over in DNSOP we are proving that :)
[09:27:46] <Dan York> Ha!
[09:27:58] <oej> Especially when trying to read badges from behind, names are difficult...
[09:28:11] <linus> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/uta
[09:28:36] <Dan York> No need to relay, but I like the idea of using the XMPP document as a template
[09:28:55] <oej> Chair speaking - orit
[09:29:13] <oej> Kohei Kasamatsu next to speak
[09:29:24] <oej> Next Eliot Lear
[09:30:21] <oej> Leif as chair speaking (and delegating writing to almost every speaker)
[09:30:29] <Yaron Sheffer> Good!
[09:30:35] <oej> :-)
[09:30:38] <Markus Stenberg> teaches you to keep your head down and read emails.. err.. ;)
[09:31:17] <oej> After him Chris Newman
[09:31:24] <oej> Markus :-)
[09:31:53] <oej> Chris sat down again, so we have no line at the mic after Eliot
[09:32:10] <resnick> Kohei-san: Please do write a small suggested paragraph on the attack and send it to the mailing list. This would be very helpful.
[09:32:16] Tony Hansen joins the room
[09:32:22] <oej> Chris is back in line!
[09:32:23] <leifj> it would be *very* helpful
[09:32:37] <kohei.kasamatsu130> I try to do so:-)
[09:32:50] <kohei.kasamatsu130> :-)
[09:32:55] <leifj> thx
[09:33:09] <oej> Orit asking a chair
[09:33:09] <resnick> Excellent!
[09:33:25] <oej> Is the BCP also targeting CA's?
[09:33:33] <oej> Chris Newman speaking
[09:33:55] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: TLS Attacks
[09:34:59] <oej> Leif considering asking the room if we're ready to adopt these documents as wg documents
[09:35:06] <resnick> Please ask for objection to adopting this first.
[09:35:12] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> if there's no competing proposal … let's use it as a starting point
[09:35:17] <resnick> Exactly.
[09:35:19] <Yaron Sheffer> mic: +1 with Peter.
[09:35:24] <oej> Barry speaking
[09:35:25] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> let's get 'er done
[09:36:27] <oej> sean: +2
[09:36:29] <Dan York> Agree!
[09:36:48] <oej> Hum now if you don't want to adopt the attack draft as a wg document
[09:36:54] <oej> And now if it's a good idea
[09:36:58] <Dan York> hum
[09:36:59] <Barry Leiba> The room has good sense.
[09:37:14] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> SOLD!
[09:37:15] <oej> Hum now if adopting now is a good idea
[09:37:21] <Dan York> Hum (good idea)
[09:37:27] <oej> I think we're going to adopt all these documents
[09:38:06] wseltzer if we hit the resonant frequency of the windows, maybe we can get some cool air in
[09:38:19] <resnick> Anyone in the chat room have concerns about adopting these?
[09:38:32] <Barry Leiba> Wendy; I've already asked the secretariat to ask the hotel to get some air in here.  They're checking.
[09:38:32] <Alessandro Amirante> Presentation stopped
[09:38:34] <Dan York> he
[09:38:48] <Dan York> heh... I heard that, stpeter :-)
[09:39:02] Chris Newman joins the room
[09:39:05] wseltzer thanks Barry
[09:39:16] Chris Newman leaves the room
[09:39:23] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 1: Prohibiting RC4 Cipher Suites in TLS
[09:39:26] <stpeter> ok, my work here is done
[09:39:34] <Alessandro Amirante> Current presenter: Ott
[09:39:35] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 1: Prohibiting RC4 Cipher Suites in TLS
[09:39:52] <oej> Orit Levin presenting since the author could not be here today
[09:39:52] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> psa drops the mic ...
[09:39:59] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> not really though
[09:40:11] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: RC4 is Popular
[09:40:54] <Yaron Sheffer> @Alessando, the camera...
[09:41:00] <oej> 40% of servers deploy ONLY RC4
[09:41:06] resnick leaves the room
[09:41:22] <Alessandro Amirante> whoops :)
[09:41:25] <oej> "They put it back" - Orit talking about Win 8
[09:41:28] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: RC4 is Insecure
[09:42:11] Chris Newman joins the room
[09:42:11] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4: Applicability of Attacks to HTTPS
[09:43:00] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 5: Prohibiting RC4 Cipher Suites
[09:43:02] <oej> "A perfect passive attack, which is really bad" - Orit
[09:44:41] <stpeter> Keith Moore at the mic
[09:45:42] oej leaves the room
[09:45:43] <stpeter> Stephen Farrell at the mic
[09:46:47] <stpeter> Ted Hardie at the mic
[09:47:22] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> so can we apply this recommendation beyond RC4?  
[09:48:01] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> I did a couple of these deprecate crypto drafts and looking at each protocol can definitely help the rest of the ietf too
[09:49:18] <stpeter> Aaron Kaplan at the mic
[09:49:24] <Franck Martin> I think rather than forbidding a cipher suite, the recommendation should be to select the strongest cipher suite when doing opportunistic TLS, rather than choosing the lowest denominator? and how to define what is the strongest cipher suite is another question...
[09:49:43] oej joins the room
[09:50:03] <oej> (sorry for leaving for a short while)
[09:50:10] resnick joins the room
[09:50:17] <Joe Hildebrand> The number of people in the line indicates we are deep in a rathole.
[09:50:26] <stpeter> oej: no worries, I am capturing the mic-line folks
[09:50:39] <stpeter> oej: if you relay comments and I type the names, we're fine
[09:50:41] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com leaves the room
[09:50:42] <Franck Martin> oej, you think it is worth mic, my comment?
[09:51:02] <Joe Hildebrand> Which crypto suites to use is NOT an apparea discussion.
[09:51:04] <stpeter> Daniel Sternberg at the mic
[09:51:16] Teemu Savolainen joins the room
[09:51:24] <linus> Stenberg
[09:51:28] <stpeter> sorry
[09:51:36] <stpeter> Keith Moore at the mic
[09:51:43] <oej> The CURL guy - Daniel :-)
[09:52:19] <stpeter> Rich Salz at the mic
[09:52:28] <oej> Franck: I must have missed that, please retransmit
[09:52:33] <oej> sorry
[09:53:12] <oej> "Not to cut the line off, but"… Leif being a bit unclear as chair
[09:53:15] <oej> :-)
[09:53:25] <Franck Martin> mic: it seems to me that when doing opportunistic SMTP+TLS the weakest cipher is picked, so instead of not recommending RC4, why don't we recommend to choose the strongest cipher, while defining strongest is a difficulty.
[09:53:38] <stpeter> Pete Resnick at the mic
[09:54:35] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[09:54:39] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[09:54:49] <Franck Martin> or I miss something in the implementation of TLS and the choice of cipher suites...
[09:55:20] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[09:55:38] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[09:55:39] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[09:56:19] <stpeter> Eric Rescorla at the mic
[09:56:38] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> please look at RFC 6149-6151 and RFC 6194
[09:57:16] <Yaron Sheffer> mic: the RC4 attacks are already mentioned in the Attack doc, OTOH the RC4 recommendation is in my opinion too extreme for the BCP.
[09:58:10] <stpeter> Yaron Sheffer: actually, draft-sheffer-tls-bcp-02 does say "MUST NOT negotiate RC4 cipher suites"
[09:58:12] <oej> in queue
[09:58:59] <Yaron Sheffer> Oh, we need to revisit it... I guess not what the alternative is cleartext.
[09:59:10] <Yaron Sheffer> when
[09:59:24] <stpeter> Yoav Nir at the mic
[09:59:49] <stpeter> Yaron Sheffer: certainly not when the alternative is cleartext! :-)
[10:00:42] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[10:01:09] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[10:02:29] <oej> Chris Newman speaking
[10:02:37] <oej> Previous was Sean Turner
[10:02:44] <oej> Peter Saint-Andre in line
[10:02:58] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> YEP!
[10:03:02] <oej> Peter with co-author hat on.
[10:03:10] semery joins the room
[10:03:33] <oej> "There's stuff that is really STUPID to do and we should steer people away from it" - StPeter
[10:03:42] <oej> Keith Moore at mic
[10:04:13] <oej> Stewart Chesire waiting
[10:04:21] <oej> Stuart I guess
[10:04:27] <oej> Boy, is it hot in here.
[10:04:28] <resnick> @psa: If we're going to say what the bad things are in the BCP, why not fold the attacks into the BCP?
[10:04:33] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> Despite XXX seeing some deployment on the Internet, this
   specification obsoletes XXXX because XX is not a reasonable
   candidate for further standardization and should be deprecated in
   favor of one or more existing XXXX algorithms (e.g., XYZ).
[10:04:41] <oej> We may need a 2.5 minute break to get some air.
[10:04:49] <Barry Leiba> Olle: Да, hot.
[10:04:50] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> sit on the floor in the back the ac  is flowing ;)
[10:05:06] <oej> Peter Saint Andre at mic
[10:05:15] <oej> Sean contributed text via jabber - Leif
[10:05:25] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> btw - that text I posted was from an RFC :)
[10:05:38] <oej> ?? at mic
[10:05:53] <linus> oej: yoav
[10:05:55] <oej> Peter Saint-Andre speaking
[10:06:02] <oej> Eliot Lear speaking
[10:06:05] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> nah I'll send it on the list
[10:06:13] <oej> +1 sean
[10:06:23] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> it's too hot in here
[10:07:01] <stpeter> it is
[10:07:23] <stpeter> Yoav's point it good, we'll add reference http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6649/ for sure
[10:07:35] <oej> Hum now is you agree to tak out the RC4 text from the BCP into the attack draft
[10:07:35] metricamerica leaves the room
[10:07:39] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> hum no from me : if RC4 is bad universally let's do it for all of the ietf
[10:07:53] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> but I know I'm in the rough here
[10:07:57] metricamerica joins the room
[10:07:59] <Tony Hansen> 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other
[10:08:09] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> I'll provide some text that looks at all of the RFCs that refer to RC4
[10:08:28] <Yaron Sheffer> It's bad, but it's not ready for a "die die die".
[10:08:31] Markus Stenberg leaves the room
[10:08:50] <resnick> My personal thought is that we do *not* want to keep the remainder of the draft in here. Give it to TLS or some other SEC group.
[10:08:53] <oej> Next presentation
[10:09:11] <stpeter> Yaron Sheffer: yes, I think that's correct
[10:09:23] <Tony Hansen> after rc4 is added, the extent of the attack draft would change. This is not a bad thing.
[10:09:24] <stpeter> resnick: that seems sensible
[10:09:30] <oej> The chat room is open for rc4 discussions
[10:09:38] <Yaron Sheffer> We will need an appendix to the BCP or a wiki for "stuff that you can do if you're stuck with TLS 1.0/1.1" - RC4 belongs there.
[10:09:52] <Alessandro Amirante> next slide deck not available on the materials page... gonna try to load it into Meetecho as soon as I have it
[10:09:59] Rhys leaves the room
[10:10:00] <Alessandro Amirante> Presentation stopped
[10:10:07] Rhys joins the room
[10:10:12] <oej> Water is handed out in the room.
[10:10:40] <oej> Leifj: Make sure meetecho gets the slide
[10:11:18] <oej> Remote participants need to fix your own water or other cooling drinks
[10:11:41] <oej> Slide: "What's is in X.509 certificate"
[10:11:51] <oej> Presenter ???
[10:11:58] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> alexey melnikov
[10:12:22] <resnick> x.509 underspecified? Shocking!
[10:12:42] <Yaron Sheffer> Can we view the slides instead or in addition to his handsome face?
[10:12:50] <oej> We do have URI SANs in teh SIP Domain Cert RFC
[10:12:59] <stpeter> the slides are on the way via Meetecho
[10:12:59] <resnick> They are working on getting the slides to meetecho.
[10:13:00] <oej> Ahh - not used for email
[10:13:27] <resnick> Chairs: You could also upload to the meeting materials site.
[10:13:35] <oej> Slide: Changes for SMTP/IMAP/POP
[10:13:46] <Alessandro Amirante> still waiting for the chairs to send them...
[10:14:10] <oej> Slide: Other Points
[10:14:16] <oej> * Wildcards are allowed
[10:14:34] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> @pete: I would have said it was over specified ;)
[10:14:37] <oej> * No CNAME substitution of the original DNS server FQDN is allowed
[10:14:53] <oej> * Secure DNS resolution (e.g. DNSSEC) is not prohibited, but not really desired
[10:14:57] <oej> (Slides by jabber)
[10:15:03] <oej> Matt Miller aka m&M speaking
[10:15:25] <oej> Eric Rescorla in queue
[10:15:41] Markus Stenberg joins the room
[10:15:43] <oej> Matt Miller still speaking
[10:15:43] Markus Stenberg leaves the room
[10:15:46] Markus Stenberg joins the room
[10:16:01] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Other points
[10:16:08] <resnick> Joe Hildebrand asked from the floor: Is there an interaction with DBOUND here? Alexey didn't know.
[10:16:18] <Alessandro Amirante> got slides on Meetecho
[10:16:21] <oej> Peter: "I think that's off topic here"
[10:16:45] <oej> Nothing is trivial in OpenSSL!!!!!
[10:16:53] Markus Stenberg leaves the room
[10:16:55] <oej> EKR leaving the mic without speaking. Surprise.
[10:17:37] <oej> Peter Saint-Andre hovering around the mic area.
[10:18:01] <Joe Hildebrand> resnick: Note: I'm not suggesting there should be, and *certainly* not anytime soon.  It's just another use case for domain boundary information.
[10:18:26] <oej> We might want to look into use of .local and RFC1918 IP addresses in certs too
[10:18:57] <oej> Chris Newman speaking
[10:19:31] <resnick> @joe: ack
[10:19:37] <oej> Joe Hildebrand speaking
[10:19:53] <oej> Peter Saint Andre speaking
[10:20:26] <oej> Next presentation: Email and TLS
[10:20:30] <oej> Christ Newman speaking
[10:20:31] kivinen leaves the room
[10:20:37] <Alessandro Amirante> Presentation stopped
[10:20:49] <Dan York> oej: Thinking you meant "Chris Newman"
[10:21:03] <oej> I think you are right, Dan.
[10:21:12] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com leaves the room
[10:21:12] <stpeter> referencing http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6125/ - one of the most unwieldy RFC titles ever
[10:21:23] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[10:21:29] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: One Slide Overview
[10:21:49] <Alessandro Amirante> Current presenter: Chris Newman
[10:21:50] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2: One Slide Overview
[10:21:57] <Dan York> oej: Although he *was* following "St. Peter"  ;-)
[10:22:05] <oej> He he
[10:23:26] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Planned Changes
[10:23:41] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4: Controversial Issue (port 465)
[10:26:05] <oej> Stephen Farrell speaking
[10:26:21] <sean.turner@jabber.psg.com> consensus trumps expert review
[10:26:25] <linus> eliot lear speaking
[10:26:27] <oej> Who's speaking? StPter?
[10:26:30] <oej> thanks
[10:26:30] satoru.kanno@jabber.org joins the room
[10:26:37] <oej> Ted Hardie speaking soon
[10:26:51] <oej> Ted walking back
[10:26:53] <stpeter> running code, man!
[10:27:07] <oej> Alexander ?? at mic
[10:27:16] <linus> alexey melnikov
[10:27:20] <stpeter> Alexey Melnikov was at the mic
[10:27:27] <oej> (My brain is boiling, so name cache is poisoned)
[10:27:35] <Alessandro Amirante> :)
[10:27:42] <oej> Randy resnick after Alexy, then Barry
[10:27:57] sean.turner@jabber.psg.com leaves the room
[10:28:01] <linus> (the only two hard problems in computer science is naming things and cache invalidation -- you just combined them)
[10:28:29] <oej> Let's call everyone Steve.
[10:28:42] oej is now known as Steve (aka oej)
[10:29:11] <Steve (aka oej)> Leif is stopping people from leaving the room. Especially people who hasn't gotten any assignment for work.
[10:29:25] <Steve (aka oej)> Peter Resnick ?
[10:29:35] <stpeter> no 'r'
[10:29:39] <stpeter> Pete Resnick
[10:29:50] <stpeter> I'm Peter, he's Pete, we're Pete*
[10:30:29] <stpeter> "URL Rendesvous Directory for SSM"
[10:30:44] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 5: Open Issue – DNS-ID/ SRV-ID support
[10:30:48] <stpeter> maybe someone can ping Toerless about that registry item
[10:31:44] Shawn Emery joins the room
[10:31:46] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 6: DANE for Submission
[10:31:55] <Franck Martin> doesn't outlook/ mail app use srv for discovery based on the email address?
[10:32:38] <Steve (aka oej)> This feels like SIP
[10:33:27] <Steve (aka oej)> Who's at mic? Stuart *
[10:34:05] <stpeter> that was Stuart Cheshire
[10:34:06] <Steve (aka oej)> Keith Moore at mic
[10:34:54] <stpeter> Eric Rescorla at mic
[10:34:56] <Joe Hildebrand> I just sent a note to the person that registered 465/tcp with my IAB hat on.  he works for my company, and we know each other, so hopefully he'll respond to me.
[10:35:05] <stpeter> thanks, Joe!
[10:35:18] resnick has gotten his mind right about port 465 after re-reading the text in the document. I am less queasy.
[10:35:36] <resnick> (Always exciting to work through these things in real time. :-/ )
[10:35:39] <stpeter> Stuart Cheshire at the mic
[10:35:42] <Tony Hansen> you can call me bruce
[10:35:43] <stpeter> resnick: :-)
[10:35:58] <Joe Hildebrand> resnick: best outcome would be the current registry to be voluntarily retracted, so we can use it.
[10:36:39] <resnick> @Joe: Yep.
[10:36:46] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 7: Open Issue – Cipher Suites
[10:40:10] <stpeter> Aaron Kaplan coming to the mic
[10:41:09] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 8: Open Issue – provisional vs. normal
[10:42:48] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 9: Open Issue – PFS latch
[10:43:20] <Steve (aka oej)> EKR at mic - Eric Rescorla
[10:46:09] wseltzer leaves the room
[10:46:12] <stpeter> next at mic is Tero Kivinen
[10:46:33] <Steve (aka oej)> Keith Moore standing up
[10:46:35] <stpeter> Keith Moore is behind Tero in line
[10:46:48] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[10:47:05] <stpeter> Daniel Kahn Gillmor just got up, too
[10:47:42] Barry Leiba joins the room
[10:47:51] <Steve (aka oej)> Mic line is growing
[10:50:09] <stpeter> Yoav Nir is standing behind Daniel Kahn Gillmor at the mic
[10:50:41] <stpeter> Chris Bentzel at mic
[10:51:32] <Steve (aka oej)> EKR speaking
[10:51:39] <linus> stewart wants the mic
[10:53:50] <stpeter> Will Chan at the ic
[10:53:59] <stpeter> mic, that is
[10:55:25] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 10: Open Issue (sec 8.3)
[10:56:20] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 11: Open Issues - Split Document
[10:56:23] lepinski leaves the room
[10:57:22] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 12: Other Open Issues
[10:58:42] <Alessandro Amirante> Presentation stopped
[11:00:06] kfo joins the room
[11:01:13] <Steve (aka oej)> Keith Moore at mic
[11:01:36] Steve (aka oej) is now known as oej (scribe)
[11:05:20] <oej (scribe)> Hmm. Would that delay a SIP message or XMPP stanza? Can we send anything before we know?
[11:05:27] <oej (scribe)> Food for thought
[11:05:45] <oej (scribe)> Joe Hildebrand to mic
[11:06:08] <oej (scribe)> Session Border Controllers….
[11:08:05] <oej (scribe)> Keith Moore talking
[11:08:23] <oej (scribe)> Facebook is used as mail by a lot of people
[11:09:10] Joe Hildebrand leaves the room
[11:09:19] <oej (scribe)> Next presentation: Opportunistic TLS by Paul Hoffman - presented by Joe Hildebrand
[11:09:20] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 1:
[11:09:28] <Alessandro Amirante> Current presenter: Joe Hildebrand
[11:09:29] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 1:
[11:09:31] <stpeter> reading RFCs via the datatracker might be low-sensitivity
[11:09:45] <oej (scribe)> "I am his avatar this morning" - Joe
[11:09:49] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 2:
[11:10:19] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3:
[11:10:34] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4:
[11:10:52] Teemu Savolainen leaves the room
[11:11:15] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 5:
[11:12:09] Rhys leaves the room
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[11:12:17] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 6:
[11:13:07] <metricamerica> wow, he's skipping a lot. Are these slides online?
[11:13:20] <oej (scribe)> Poor avatar quality
[11:13:41] <Alessandro Amirante> metricamerica: yes they are on the materials page
[11:14:00] <stpeter> metricamerica: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/materials.html#wg-uta
[11:14:06] <oej (scribe)> Ted hardie speaking
[11:14:20] <Franck Martin> mic: I think this is not well worded, it may be shown as in authentication-results, but rather it does not require user input to continue, and should not be interupted
[11:14:21] <stpeter> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-uta-7.pdf
[11:14:26] <metricamerica> sorry, did not see them there.
[11:14:37] <oej (scribe)> stpeter: Relay help?
[11:14:47] <Franck Martin> coming to mic
[11:14:55] <stpeter> oej: sure
[11:15:37] <oej (scribe)> ok, no relay service offered ;-)
[11:15:38] <stpeter> note to participants: don't ask to relay if you're actually in the room :-)
[11:17:34] <oej (scribe)> D kahn Gillmor speaking
[11:18:34] <stpeter> Franck Martin at mic
[11:19:40] Olafur Gudmundsson leaves the room
[11:19:52] <stpeter> Derek Atkins at ic
[11:19:54] <stpeter> ic
[11:19:56] <stpeter> mic
[11:19:56] <oej (scribe)> 10 minutes left of the meeting
[11:20:00] <stpeter> I have keyboard issues :-)
[11:20:10] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[11:20:16] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[11:21:02] <oej (scribe)> TOFU = Trust on first use (like SSH leap of faith)
[11:21:18] <oej (scribe)> Keith Moore speaking
[11:21:27] <oej (scribe)> Stephen Farrell in line
[11:21:37] <oej (scribe)> Line is growing
[11:22:12] <stpeter> the onboard dictionary on my device says opportunistic means "exploiting chances offered by immediate circumstances without reference to a general plan or moral principle"
[11:22:14] <Yaron Sheffer> mic: we do need agreement and an RFC on OE terminology. But this one is too opinionated to be a good start.
[11:22:18] <stpeter> Stephen Farrell at the mic
[11:22:43] <oej (scribe)> StPeter: Relay? Go first in line
[11:22:45] <stpeter> oej: I can relay Yaron's comment
[11:22:47] <Yaron Sheffer> Yep
[11:23:08] <oej (scribe)> Charis Cutting the mic line now —————————
[11:23:15] <stpeter> Joe Salowey at the mic
[11:24:14] <resnick> Jeff Hodges at the mic
[11:25:09] <stpeter> Rob Trace is next in line
[11:26:09] Kathleen Moriarty leaves the room
[11:26:12] <oej (scribe)> Leif is trying to keep the meeting under control
[11:26:31] <oej (scribe)> The caching debate opens up…
[11:26:36] m&m leaves the room
[11:26:48] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 7:
[11:27:04] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 8:
[11:27:20] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[11:27:46] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie with IAB hat on
[11:28:10] Rhys leaves the room
[11:28:18] <oej (scribe)> Pete Resnick spoke
[11:28:18] satoru.kanno@jabber.org leaves the room
[11:28:21] lellel leaves the room
[11:28:31] <oej (scribe)> David Kahn Gillmore speaking
[11:28:40] Olafur Gudmundsson joins the room
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[11:29:50] <oej (scribe)> "treat this data as it was in the clear"
[11:30:21] <oej (scribe)> Rich ??? speaking
[11:30:27] <metricamerica> The public health analogy was good. This is about vaccinating people in spite of the fact they ignore their open sores.
[11:30:38] Steve Olshansky leaves the room
[11:30:43] <stpeter> metricamerica: indeed
[11:31:04] <oej (scribe)> Stephen Farrell speaking
[11:31:11] <stpeter> that was Rich Salz
[11:31:24] <oej (scribe)> Time to close this meeting and run for cookies!
[11:31:53] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[11:31:56] <oej (scribe)> Thank you all. Thank you for the help stpeter!
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[11:32:18] <Alessandro Amirante> Goodbye everybody!
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