Re: [armd] Gratuitous ARP pre-populating ARP caches.

Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Tue, 28 August 2012 00:54 UTC

Return-Path: <warren@kumari.net>
X-Original-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: armd@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9969D21F8489 for <armd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -106.521
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EOkxkHVe3k-U for <armd@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vimes.kumari.net (vimes.kumari.net [198.186.192.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E71521F842F for <armd@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.242.21.221] (m2a5f36d0.tmodns.net [208.54.95.42]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1F6261B40674; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
In-Reply-To: <201208272129.q7RLTtCK015974@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 20:54:32 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <358551A0-56F1-43DF-AD46-E98B4FF9E7BE@kumari.net>
References: <201208272129.q7RLTtCK015974@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278)
Cc: armd@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [armd] Gratuitous ARP pre-populating ARP caches.
X-BeenThere: armd@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues associated with large amount of virtual machines being introduced in data centers and virtual hosts introduced by Cloud Computing." <armd.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/armd>, <mailto:armd-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/armd>
List-Post: <mailto:armd@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:armd-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/armd>, <mailto:armd-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 00:54:36 -0000

On Aug 27, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Thomas Narten wrote:

> Hi. The RtgDir review of this document raised an issue, to which I
> responded as follows. Anyone care to comment on this point?

Cisco IOS used to prepopulate ARP cache from Gratuitous ARP, but I do not think that this was the default behavior.

I used to rely on the gratuitous ARP behavior in a network back in ~1994. We had some weird home grown network widgets that simply didn't do ARP, and so we had some other device on the same LAN that would send (spoofed) gratuitous ARPs on their behalf every minute or two. 

A number of load balancer (and similar devices) do failover using Gratuitous ARPs -- when the primary goes down the backup sends gARP for all of the VIPs. Netscaler used to send these at GigE line rate -- if there were a large number of VIPs the routers would often nat be able to keep up, and hilarity would ensue…
 
W

> 
> Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> writes:
> 
>>> 3. Sec 7.1 seems to suggest that Gratuitous ARPs pre-populate ARP
>>> caches on the neighboring devices. Without an explicit description
>>> of what a neighboring device is, I would presume that this also
>>> includes edge/core routers. In that case this statement is not
>>> entirely correct as I am aware of routers that will by default not
>>> pre-populate their ARP caches on receiving Gratuitous ARPs.
> 
>> Right. The spec says "don't do this". But I believe it was asserted
>> that some implementations do this. That said, I'm not aware of any
>> such implementations. I would be willing to remove this sentence in
>> the absence of known implementations of this.
> 
> Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> armd mailing list
> armd@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/armd
> 

--
After you'd known Christine for any length of time, you found yourself fighting a desire to look into her ear to see if you could spot daylight coming the other way.

    -- (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)