Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100

I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is rhetorical.

None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to talk about
"inclusive" ever again.

-James Seng

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com> wrote:

> Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United States[1].
>
> Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time after 9-11, it
> took me 2 hours just to clear the security and I missed my flight. I also
> remember pre 9-11, I could get into US for less than 15-20mins.
>
> Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time, let me tell you
> what we non-American citizen has to do to get into US after 9-11. We have
> been tagged, photographed, fingerprinted, all our 10 fingers every time we
> have to enter US. We have been systematically profiled, often by racial or
> nationality, and some of us have to go through enhanced body-to-body search
> everytime we cross security. I was put in a "Muslim" basket been a
> Malaysian for a while so ... And we have to do it with a smile because if
> any of us pull of a stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied our entry
> and possibility forever.
>
> My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on a lot of
> weight and asked me to check my photos. Unfortunately, I don't like selfie
> nor do I like to take pictures of myself. But I told her not to worry as
> TSA has a complete profile of me becoming fat over the years.
>
> Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to forbid Muslim to
> enter US, to build walls to prevent people from the south, who threaten to
> get even tougher to foreigners.
>
> So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold IETF meeting
> where "law declares some people less valid", I prognosticate we may no
> longer able to hold our meetings in US.
>
> [1] http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-thing
> s-have-changed-2001-2093156
>
> [2] http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa
>
> ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US even though
> getting there is still a pain for me.
>
> -James Seng
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304) <MHammer@ag.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thompson, Jeff
>> > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM
>> > To: Dan Harkins
>> > Cc: recentattendees@ietf.org; Ietf@Ietf. Org
>> > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF
>> > 100
>> >
>> > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan Harkins"
>> > <recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of dharkins@lounge.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >  I would also like to suggest that the ability of certain members to
>> > >bring their family on a vacation that coincides with an IETF should not
>> > >be a governing factor in venue selection. Many people like to launder a
>> > >business trip into a family vacation (myself
>> > >included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it should have no
>> > >bearing on where we meet.
>> >
>> > So then, the IETF policy would read ³The IETF may hold meetings in
>> countries
>> > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are such a
>> person, then
>> > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you should hide
>> who
>> > you are, including not bringing your family.²
>> >
>> > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be?
>> >
>> > - Jeff
>> >
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> Is there any country in the world that meets the standard your comment
>> implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a case of perfection being the
>> enemy of good? Perhaps it is a case of perfection being the enemy of
>> reality. I don't know what IETF policy should be but I do recognize that
>> there are very real limitations that constrain choices. I'll also point out
>> that the choices made will constrain the choices of participants. I'm not
>> advocating for any particular choice by the IETF with regard to meeting
>> locations.
>>
>> Mike
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> -James Seng
>

-- 
-James Seng