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Re: [OAUTH-WG] auth-param syntax, was: OK to post OAuth Bearer draft 15?

Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com> Fri, 30 December 2011 23:20 UTC

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From: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com>
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Thread-Topic: auth-param syntax, was: [OAUTH-WG] OK to post OAuth Bearer draft 15?
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Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:19:56 +0000
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Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, OAuth WG <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] auth-param syntax, was: OK to post OAuth Bearer draft 15?
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I did already back the statement that this is the working group consensus with the e-mails attached in this note sent to you on December 12, 2011:
  - http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg08042.html

But since that apparently wasn't convincing to you that this working group decision represents more than "just me disagreeing with you", here are references to individual messages referenced in the above e-mail:
  - Eran Hammer-Lahav: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07698.html
  - John Bradley:  http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07699.html
  - William Mills:  http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07700.html
  - Mike Jones:  http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07701.html
  - Phil Hunt:  http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07702.html
  - Justin Richer:  http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg07692.html

As for your assertion that the specs are in conflict, yes, the Bearer spec includes a different decision than a RECOMMENDED clause in the HTTPbis spec (which was added after the Bearer text was already in place).  However, it is not violating any MUST clauses in the HTTPbis spec.  Given that no MUSTS are violated, I don't see it mandatory for this tension to be resolved in favor of one spec or the other in order for both to be approved as RFCs.  I look forward to seeing that happen soon in both cases (and for the OAuth core spec as well).

				Best wishes,
				-- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de] 
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 2:26 AM
To: Mike Jones
Cc: Barry Leiba; Mark Nottingham; OAuth WG
Subject: Re: auth-param syntax, was: [OAUTH-WG] OK to post OAuth Bearer draft 15?

On 2011-12-29 22:18, Mike Jones wrote:
> You proposed, Julian "3. Do not specify the ABNF. The ABNF of the WWW-Authenticate is defined in HTTPbis. Just state the names of the parameters, their syntax *after* parsing and their semantics."
>
> About some of Mark Nottingham's comments, Barry wrote "Let me point out that "this represents working-group consensus" is not always a valid response.  If the working group has actually considered the *issue*, that might be OK.  But if there's consensus for the chosen solution and someone brings up a *new* issue with it, that issue needs to be addressed anew."
>
> Relative to these two statements, I believe that I should remark at this point that your proposed semantics of only considering the syntax after potential quoting was explicitly considered earlier by the working group and rejected.  The consensus, instead, was for the present "no quoting will occur for legal inputs" semantics.

It would be helpful if you could back this statement with pointers to mails. As far as I can tell it's just you disagreeing with me.

Back to the facts:

a) the bearer spec defines an HTTP authentication scheme, and normatively refers to HTTPbis Part7 for that

b) HTTPbis recommends new scheme definitions not to have their own ABNF, as the header field syntax is defined by HTTPbis, not the individual scheme

c) the bearer spec defines it's own ABNF nevertheless

So the two specs are in conflict, and we should resolve the conflict one way or the other.

If you disagree with the recommendation in HTTPbis, then you really really should come over to HTTPbis WG and argue your point of view.

If you agree with it, but think that the bearer spec can't follow the recommendation, then it would be good to explain the reasoning (optimally in the spec).

If you agree with it, and think the bearer spec *could* follow it, then... change it, by all means.

Anyway, if this issue isn't resolved before IETF LC then it will be raised again at that time.


> I believe that in the New Year the chairs and area directors will need to decide how to proceed on this issue.  (The working group consensus, as I see it, is already both well-informed and clear on this point, but I understand that that's not the only consideration.)  It would be good to see the spec finished shortly.
> ...

Best regards, Julian

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