Email Address Internationalization (EAI) WG minutes Meeting: IETF75, Monday, July 27, 1740-1940 Place: Room 300, City Conference Center, Stockholm, Sweden Chair: Harald Alvestrand , Xiaodong Lee Minutes: Chris Newman Version: 1.0 ===================================================== 1740 - Scribe, blue sheet, agenda bashing Chris Newman volunteered as scribe. 1750 - Documents in Last Call draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8-07 draft-ietf-eai-pop-06 draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-01 IMAP document: Alexey: reviewed with 1 issue: lack of SASLprep What to do with invalid UTF-8 and strings that fail SASLprep This is section talking about usernames Pete: fine. will just change this. John Klensin: concerned about reliance on stringprep as we're moving away from that in other way. Chris: suggest indirect reference through SASL PLAIN. Pete: has anyone implemented this IMAP spec? room: no hands Pete: this is a concern, but OK for experimental status. POP document: Alexey issues: language range reference needs to be clarified to be "basic language range" from the lang-range RFC. Issue 2: comments about SASLprep for APOP and USER/PASS. Same as IMAP. Issue 3: inexact message sizes issue. Randy: message size will be inexact with UTF-8 mailstore when it has to downgrade. Clients that require reliable sizes may be broken by this change. Joseph Yee (in chatroom): rfc1939 (pop3) is concern on list, not on stat (if I recall correctly) regards to size Conclusion: need more text describing the issue of message sizes. Barry: may want to support multiple usernames but best to describe that in framework or usability document Downgraded display: No issues raised on downgraded-display. 1810 - Deployment experience What implementations are done, what tests have been done, what has been deployed in (test) production? What areas of trouble did arise? How should we document this experience? draft-yao-eai-deployment-03 draft-yee-eai-pop3-scenarios-00 draft-ietf-eai-email-clients-00 Discussion of deployment experience. Problems talking to non-EAI mail servers, downgrading raises same phishing problem with non-downgrading. Joseph Yee confirmed that 30-40 participants had registered in the testing platform John: Concerned whether downgrade is sufficiently interoperable and proven to overcome significant disadvantages of new email syntax. Long discussion of interoperability concerns with downgrading. Ted: what use case is a concern? John: concerned with environments where anti-spam games based on behavior. If we're introducing distortions in such tests we should at least understand them. Ted: concerned about feature-creep for how downgrade interacts with non-standard systems delaying work. joseph.yee (in chat): On the 'business card' example, users type only one address, not the compound, downgrade's big main purpose is for the sender address John: concerned that downgrade is the high risk area. Particularly the > syntax. Draft standard test will involve testing this against broken mail related stuff in the wild. Dave Crocker: we really believe we do not understand all of the problems this may cause and would like to understand them better before promoting this. Ted: charter says we can go forward with downgrade as informational Charter does require mailing list problems be considered before advancing Barry: thought double-address would be transitional initially. Harald: may not be very transitional. We need to have confidence in downgrade or willingness to set aside downgrade before moving the set to standards track. Moving on to mailto URL issue (19:03) Discussion of schemes to do mailto iri and uri. Is mailto making progress? Alexey has encouraged document author Ted: if we do a new IRI scheme, this could be non-blocking. But if we do IRI form of mailto then mailto-bis is blocking. Suggest a conf call gets set up with dedicated time of experts such as Leslie and Pete. John: also interested in this call. Alexey will collect together assorted experts to talk with Martin about mailto-bis. Mailing list draft: Draft has expired. Randy: No, nothing has been worked on. Major issue in mailing list is the mailto: issue. The rest of the mailto issue is handwaving about ideal solutions. Chris: I volunteer to take EAI issue discussion to my engineering team to provide some feedback on the problems. Conclusions on drafts: documents in last call: imap & pop have small details. downgrade-display has no small details. need more input on list that documents have been reviewed. Will pass these 3 to Alexey hopefully relatively soon. Need shepherd write-ups for these from WG chairs or their delegates. Deployment experience: No concrete actions. Progressing on standards track: We do want downgrade experience and experience with what happens in the wild with downgrade. Who's doing testing, what are results? People who volunteer are extremely welcome. Mailto: AD action to figure out where it is. Mailing lists: Randy action to refresh document. Chris action to discuss with team to determine problems. The WG concludes at 19:28.