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vnrg
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Agenda Bashing
- Agenda was changed upon a request of Lars Eggert, to first discuss the current state of the RG and the future of it. 

Introduction slides from Martin
Last meeting in Beijing Nov 2011
General RG activity level quite low

Discussion with respect to the RG after the intro slides

IETF activities
- Cross Stratum Optimization
- Software Defined Networking (Bar BOF)
  - How to map network resources at different levels to each other
  - early work
- Data Center Network Migration
...

RG Status
@IETF77

- Initial set of work items

Discussion on how to move forward:

R. Bless:
- more focused work may help
- one draft where people can work on

Bhumip Khasnabish:
- Maybe broaden the scope, include server storage etc. to bring new/more people
- create few focused work streams and then ask people to get to the vnrg
- maybe more work on the storage/server virtualization

Martin:
- including the system side is probably dangerously
- we ruled that out from the beginning

Sangjin Jeong:
- only a single individual document right now
- would be good have a document

D. Papadimitriou:
- Maastricht discussion was good,
- challenges from a higher level as a good starting point
- major difference about VPNs and VNs
- role of access points
- was good to have clear questions to be answered
- definition of terms also in ITU

Martin:
- chairs could be more stream-lining

Bhumip:
- maybe use a landscape document
- lot of slides and unorganized documentation

Lars Eggert:
- chairs tried a number of different approaches
- Need people coming to the mic saying: I'm going to work on this,
  review, write a section
- enough people on the list, but not enough people to bring work
- not a research group but more like an interest group
- start a clock now, activity will be judged at some point in time
- not a failure of the chairs or participants
- right now I've not seen anybody saying: "I'm going to do..."

Lou Berger:
- VNs are such a broad topic
- better having some focused goals
- difficult to find the charter of the group
- easier to say note on something, write something

Lars Eggert:
- Often the case someone presents already existing work, but nothing
  came ever out of it.
- everyone is waiting for someone to step up and do some activity

Martin:
- but never nailed down to something

Lou Berger:
- two BARBOFs related to this, even in IS-IS, but people are not here
- BARBOFs could have been here

D. Papadimitriou:
- Layering problem discussed in Maastricht
- better have that documented
- but this problem was so huge that it should better have been
  cut into some smaller pieces

Lars Eggert:
- who has read the terminology draft or other documents (only very few hands show up)
- problem if people don't even want to spent time reading the documents
- people from VISA Workshop at SIGCOMM?

Lou Berger:
- how do you think that people know about the draft
- maybe focus on one thing and finish that, e.g., problem statement

Lars Eggert:
- great that comes back to people doing something


- Roland, Dimitri, and Bhump will work on the layering problem
  discussed in Maastricht,  document the output of the discussion
  Lou Berger wants to review

Lars:
- RG is likely going to be closed soon, now the perfect time to become active

Didier Colle:
- SDN often related to OpenFlow
- is OpenFlow out?
- it is not really virtualization but it's related

Martin:
- People cannot come here and expect that we will
  take up their particular solution

Presentation up
Virtual Networks Problem Statement
Sangjin Jeong

Slide 3: Different definitions of network Slide 4: resources -> Slide 5: virtual link requirements

D. Papadimitriou:
- more questions to be answered before going to these detailed requirements

R. Bless:
- maybe separate into control plane and data plane issues
- list mixed different aspects

Martin Stiemerling:
- list is heavily mixed
- more properties, not requirements

D. Papadimitriou:
- virtual link requirements, virtual node requirements, where are the
  virtual _network_ requirements?

Lou Berger:
- would be useful, what services are offered by a virtual network offered
- to say how that differs from VPNs would be helpful


R. Bless:
- distinguish different perspectives on the VNs,
  e.g., a s a VN user, a VN operator, an InP

Slide 7:
Lou Berger:
- acid test means pass/fail?
- maybe an attribute not an acid test

R. Bless:
- we have defined different roles in the 4WARD architecture
- better to distinguish the different perspectives and
  talk about the different interfaces.

Lou Berger:
- Terminology, different provider terms
- write 4WARD terminology down and send this to the terminology authors

- is a virtual host coming down to a virtual node?

Martin Stiemerling:
- way forward try to get input for the definitions
- be more aggressive as document author

Roland will provide different roles and definitions from the 4ward project

Martin will provide use cases

NaaS
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Virtual Network Another Scenario-NaaS

D. Papadimitriou:
- clarification on benefits please? Your solution also implies cost
- need to be clear on composition

Martin Stiemerling:
- write up a draft, also paying attention into composition

Meeting close ~10:40h