JSON WG - IETF 87 Berlin ============================================================== 2013-08-01 @ 09:00-10:20 [ Thanks to John Levine for taking minutes, and Jim Schaad for jabber scribing ] 1) WG Status '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Chairs summarized state of the working group from inception (2013-05-31) to present. Very initial version of 4627bis published, and there has been much list discussion on a number of issues. Chairs and ADs also summarized steps taken to involve TC39 (EcmaScript folks) in the WG. Barry Leiba and Eliot Lear met with Istvan (TC39 Secretary General) and Douglas Crockford to explain the IETF and WG process, and discuss how to move forward. The WG Chairs sent emails to the public and private mailing lists for TC39, inviting them to join the discussion at the JSON WG. Some from that group joined us, but their participation has been minimal to date. No formal liaison relationship between Ecma TC39 and the JSON WG. Instead, an informal agreement has been reached, and the ADs will be responsible for ensuring the process moves forward with Ecma as necessary. 2) Scope and Approach to Outstanding Issues '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Discussion on outstanding issues focused mostly on two things: the conceptual model of what a JSON thingy is, before it is encoded for transmission; and the relationship between the JSON WG and Ecma TC39. 2.1 Conceptual Model -------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Resnick urged the group to first understand the conceptual model before trying to suggest text (normative or otherwise), then determine the explanations of the requirements works that are in place now. Larry Masinter recalled the difficulties with URLs, and recommends that we make clear the distinction between some in-memory programming model and the encoding of that model to be sent over the wire. Joe Hildebrand suggested that thinking of a JSON "thingy" as a form of "fault-tolerant" UTF-16 could help resolve most of the outstanding issues. Jeff Hodges suggests that we think of this as a serialized JSON, and that we find better terms and use them more consistently. 2.2 Relationship between JSON WG and Ecma TC39 -------------------------------------------------------------- There is no formal relationship, nor are there plans to establish one. The chairs and ADs have invited TC39 individuals to participate, and will encourage them to re-join the conversation. The goal is to jointly publish a document, once this working group has reach consensus on one, and for the IESG to work out the details if and when necessary. 2.3 Other Important Issues -------------------------------------------------------------- Larry Masinter requested we have a "parking lot" for other (non-bis) issues to be noted. The Chairs suggest using the wiki; Paul Hoffman to update it with some of the non-bis items we already know of. 3) Virtual Interim Logistics -------------------------------------------------------------- The proposal is to have a virtual interim, via WebEx. The purpose is to have a real-time conversation, to try and reach rough consensus on the outstanding issues. In the time between the IETF meeting and the virtual interim is to get rough consensus on the issues to address. The proposed date and time is August 21, at 15:00 UTC, with a proposed duration of 3 hours. Some concern that this might be too early (although those concerns were later retracted after the meeting). A follow up virtual (or physical) interim will be determined as part of the first virtual interim. Jim Schaad (speaking from experience) requested the chairs spell out how speakers will be queued, and that text-based discussion take place in the Jabber room.