* chairs gave a short summary of document status
* chris newman presentd DEEP 
 	- changes from 01
	- now a wg draft
	- fold in coments from Russ
	- add reference from TLS BCP
  Open Issues
	- need to gather deployment data on 465/587
           - John Levine: all support 587 and all big except hotmail support 465 with start_tls
           - Chris: then the draft should be changed to reflect this
           - Keith: there were other reasons why a separate port made sense
	- design tradeoff issues discussion
	   - Legard Levinson (?) Was Dane considered?
	   - Chris: few references to Dane in the current document.. some open issues
	   - discussion about account setup and Dane 
           - David Lamparter: Dane can't inform a client about the availability of TLS - only about certificates
           - Keith More: wo dnssec its just a different set of security holes
	   - Pete Resnick: don't latch to non-validated certs
           - Chris: yes but latching gets addl security
           - Keith: <support Pete> - don't latch to unvalidated certs
           - Yaron: passive security is a misnomer - also a middlebox can provide a false certificate. Don't latch unless validate.
           - Orit (as individual) but don't latch.
           - Stephen: latch for a short period?
           - Keith: don't create systems that create support-issues
        - Consensus: don't latch invalid certificates
           - =JeffH pointed out a reference to HSTS
        - Update IMAP mandatory to implement ciphers to match bcp
           - SeanT: yes you should update
           - Alexei: yes update and update all 3 by changing the mandatory to implement ciphers with a reference to the TLS BCP
           - Stephen: you could point to the specific preferred ciphers from the BCP
           - Keith: reference a specific version of the BCP
           - Barry: that won't matter given how we do references
           - Orit: keep track of interop issues
        - Improve document clarity
           - Chris: open to suggestions for improving organization and readability
           - Discussion about the goals of document improvement and the (non-)BCP status of this specification

         - Volunteers to review: 
             Sean Turner
             Dave Crocker
     - Open questions
        - Discussions on how clients can avoid latching on TLS 1.0
* Open Mic
     - Pete is stepping down as AD. IESG reorg means UTA will kept in APPS but with Stephen Farrell as Responsabl AD