WG items -------- 19:00 AQM Characterization Guidelines Update draft-ietf-aqm-eval-guidelines Nicolas Kuhn et. al. 5 min Gorry Fairhurst: this doc will never be perfect, it's valuable now, we should proceed to WGLC 19:05 draft-ietf-aqm-ecn-benefits Gorry Fairhurst 5 min Richard Scheffenegger: this is now in WGLC, last chance to speak 19:10 draft-hoeiland-joergensen-aqm-fq-codel Toke Hoeiland-Joergensen 5 min Andrew McGregor: codel doc is not ready yet but we shouldn't wait Bob Briscoe: this is a good doc, still haven't finished review ================ Algorithm Proposals ------------------- 19:15 Questioning the goal of hard Delay Targets Scaling AQM config with load and capacity Bob Briscoe 10 min show of hands: half of the audience understands the draft Stuart Cheshire: agree that loss is more harmful than we think but ECN should make it go away Bob Briscoe: agree but we then need a good algorithm for ECN marking Dave Dolson: what are the units of the axis Bob: see the draft, slides are simplified Matt Mathis: this is not specific to TCP, any congestion control needs to tradeoff loss rate vs latency vs data rate this is why TCP isn't great for measurements in old RED, smoothing function is broken Bob: we need to work on this Matt: I suggest 1 way exponential moving average Stuart: we shouldn't blame TCP for everything, this is inherent to congestion control ? : if you don't have ECN, should we still use this? Bob: if you don't have ECN, maybe go for something better than Droptail and use pie or (fq)codel Matt: both of these are 100x better than drop tail so still do something 19:25 Dual Queue Coupled AQM Koen de Schepper 20 min Stuart Cheshire: are these served round robin? Koen de Schepper: classic queue is only served when L4S queue is empty (strict queuing) Dave Taht: If you are using only the ECT to differentiate flows, how does legacy Cubic+ECN compare? Koen: this assumes that ECN implies DCTCP, we should discuss another way to differentiate but not now Mirja: to clarify, other congestion control algorithms that are as aggressive could work too Koen: agree Stuart: Apple turned on ECN on all iOS/Mac OS current developer seeds (see WWDC video) please test it and spread the word Bob: we need an identifier to differentiate TCP-ECN vs DCTCP David Schinazi: what's the plan for incremental rollout? Richard: let's move this discussion to the list 19:45 draft-lauten-aqm-gsp Wolfram Lautenschlaeger 5 min Richard: encourage feedback on this algorithm on the list