LMAP WG IETF 93 Minutes Dan Romascanu and Jason Weil chairing Based on notes taken by Philip Eardley July 23, 2015 1. Note Well, Note Takers, Jabber Scribes, Agenda Bashing - Chairs Dan: Intro Agenda bash: Mobile LMAP use cases move first as Antonio is remote and has issues? ok. 2. WG Status - Chairs WG Status: as per slides 9. Mobile LMAP Use Cases - Antonio Bovo Antonio: no slides - see i-d dan: who has read it? No-one Dan; result of study group in ieee 802.15. not planning stds work, but release part of content to other organizations. Dan: Antonio, please look at our use case and framework docs to see if we need to re-visit them. Could also influence future re-charter. 3. LMAP Information Model ? Juergen [1] changes:- Task can now calculate multiple metrics from same pkt train schedules are triggered by events - timings are just one possibility. see slides last time from ieee - could be eg if you enter a certain region. actions feed into results, not other schedules . for simplicity, optimizing for the common case removed idea of multiple task outputs - but can tag, so only look at what you're interested in sequential parallel and pipeline of actions. [2] instruction task. Juergen proposing to ditch the term. Tim Carey - was an artificial construct (from BBF perspective) Juergen - trying to distinguish tasks that do measurement and infrastr task ok, get rid of it [check during wglc] [3] schedule gets disabled [not tasks etc] Tim - got to rev tr69 model for latest version of info model. fundamental problem is operational status vs admin state. Don?t accurately reflect this in info model. Juergen - yes want to know state of actions and taskas as well as schedules. [4] execution mode what should it be? sequential, parallel or pipeline? Tim & Juergen favour seq or pip. both favour pipeline as default. Tim concerned making changes on the draft that haven't been discussed. Thought we settled on task outputs. Don?t know about the data models that are out there. Same for changes of naming. not just one data model. Dan - perhaps we should have had an interim. Tim - please get on list first, as organizations doing data models other than the yang one. Tim - why multiple tasks? juergen - metric defines a metric you can send a traffic pattern and calculate multiple metrics from it. refer to multiple metrics in the registry. multiple registry entries? do you do one ? task can declare it calculates multiple metrics Al - what i want. no registry today. spec for stream of pkts in active, measure metrics on stream, usually several on same stream. Tim- how does the CPE know? Al - have to be unionable. if reg entry references different stream characteristics should be in different tasks. Phil - CPE may be simple and not be able to calculate the tasks are unionable. Tim - 2 registry entries for 2 metrics to ping task. incumbent on registry to define relationship between tasks. phil - registry going to WGLC on Friday. 4. LMAP YANG Data Model ? Juergen similar changes to info model. [1] granularity of periodic timer. millisec or sec? Tim - BBF uses msec for diagnostics. so can do repetitive things like ping. Juergen - are you triggering separate tasks at high freq? Tim - implementation detail. Joachim Fabini ? time slotted network want millisec to avoid conflicts. various nits Open issues - main one: Config and reporting data models. written to use notifications for reporting. needs open connex or call home ie push data over hanging request, event stream over the response. not pretty though do-able. typically implementations do rest call. we should do this Juergen asked the YANG doctors. They say model as RPC. Same on wire - post to collector but yang mechanics are simpler. Tim - we've replied on other transport protocols like ftp, http more efficeint as can compres for large data sets. profiles for flexibility. Juergen - ietf prefers one answer. Dan - netconf discussions Jason - do you expect DM to trigger any changes to DM? Juergen - not from the reporting discussion. Dan - what's left? J- reporting, as discussed. Some clean-ups. Dan - keeping reporting and control in same doc? Juergen - next version in sept. Dan - maybe interim in mid sept. virtual. BBF meeting in early sept. Seems too early. 5. LMAP Protocol? Juergen protocol comparison section can be removed. editorials. Dan - is H1 ok for updates? Juergen - H2 sept for updates. Oct 19 is cut-off for I-D for IETF-94 6. Use Cases for Collaborative LMAP - Rachel Huang multiple autonomous measurement systems collaborate for measurement. multiple controllers is outside charter at moment. e.g. content provider collaborate with isp to guide design or better e2e performance troubleshooting. derived some requirements. would like feedback and wg to include in next stage? Dan - is there any (proprietary) deployment today for collaborative measurements? Don?t know. Marcelo Bgnulo - do ISPs in room that will deploy lmap want this? Kamala Subramaniam Microsoft - see next presentation on ISP use case Frode - Euro regs studying feasibility of collab. may conclude end of this year. Robert Kistekeki- mPlane - building protocol do this. Jason - is MA associated with 2 controllers, or is it inter-controller interface? 7. Router Buffer Sizes in WAN - Kamala In the WAN, ~~100 msecs mine data from operator?s network in order to quantify buffer size (which costs). Literature doesn't reflect reality that well. Issues are lack of std way to mine empirical data & lack of concise way to present mined data Google's geo-replication data - smaller of the networks doing this. least, max & average latency on the slide. need to stdised these methods would be useful. Wes George - how to get reasons for the discards? ans - Use IPV6, slfow, snmp. no single way. Wes TWC - we've seen whilst router on paper has buffer size but can be much lower because of way carved up - for qos policy. rounds to 1% - so ~1msec of buffer ONLY. Dan - discussion is starting to get out of lmap scope. Please be more specific in your next version of i-d. Matt Mathis - ISPS are doing optimize of buffer cap vs performance. valuable to them. so telemetry is to help isp do this optimization. Dan - please send PDF that is OK with in confidence removed from footer. 8. Internet Measurement System - Motoyuki Ooki we're measuring e2e performance - sharing status. also propose lmap extensions. set up is similar but not same as lmap. controller supplies schedule with high priority making ~20k measurements per week Extend in future to measurement between different AS Dan - we should open thread on inter-domain since several people have mentioned. concerns about authentication on border etc. security considerations are needed Dan - please show what's changed rather than all stuff. Matt M - big opportunity is you want to take on Dan - future work, so worth so phil - out of scope is MA with multiple independent controllers. Measuring across domains is ok 10. Next steps and open mic Alissa - important to finish pending work. some low energy on some work items. make sure get reviews from outside authors etc. Vic Liu - protocol draft. our draft is based on yang protocol, so can merge our draft with it. Dan - WG has made decision about protocol. it is not open. please make your comments in context of this protocol