SUPA Minutes by Will(Shucheng) LIU, with help from Georgios Karagiannis ================================================== Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions WG (supa) Agenda for IETF 97, Seoul (agenda-00) Friday Afternoon session I (11:50-13:20) ================================================== Chairs: Nevil Brownlee Daniel King AGENDA: 1. Note Well, Agenda review, Scribes = 5 min 2. Update from last meeting / WG Status (Dan) = 5 min - Ongoing development of SUPA Information Model and Data Model - Need for applicable Use Cases Dan Romascanu(from Jabber):the information about MEF is very encouraging. I was following the work in MEF before retiring, I was actually probably the first introducing SUPA there. I have no longer visibility, as MEF work in progress is accessible only to member companies. It would be good to receive updates as their work develops. Dan King: We will have a interim. 2.1 i2nsf Hackathon Feedback Presenter: Georgios Karagiannis Bert Wijnen: We have the GPIM and DM. Are they doing stuff based on IM or DM? Georgios: Please ask Sue for more details. Joel Halpern: They started to do before we have finished DM. Bert: Important to identify that there is a challenge when a group uses only the SUPA Information Model and derives a specific data model. What happens if a group uses the SUPA Data model and in the meanwhile the SUPA Information model and SUPA data model is changed? Jaehoon Jeong: I joined the I2NSF hackthon. At the beginning, we tried to make DM based on SUPA IM from John. He also co-author the draft in I2NSF. Our plan is to derive DM next time. 3. Current Working Group Documents 3.1 Generic Policy Information Model for Simplified Use of SUPA = 10 min draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-01 Presenter: Joel Halpern No comments received. 3.2 Generic Policy Data Model for Simplified Use of SUPA = 10 min draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-01 Presenter: Joel Halpern Joel: Do we need to add more descriptive introductory material in section 5? Bert: No, but have some text that refers to some sections in the information model. Joel: Open question on enumeration (Extensible enumeration is not extensible): The model includes many enumerations These are used for classic listings of “possible values for this thing” YANG enumerations are not extensible in submodels We could use a base identity for the field with a derived identity for each currently defined meaning Thus allowing new values to be added in models which build on this Should we do so? Bert: I'm willing to post it to the YANG doctors mailing list. Joel: Every YANG doctor I talked said no. Xufeng Liu(Kuatro): It's true. Numeration is not extensible. You can change to "identity". Joel: Yes, I can change. So my question to the group is shall I change? Adrian Farrel: We have a similar situatoin before. It is good to pass this via YANG doctors. Benoit Claise: Drop an email to YANG doctors. Want to have something in the guideline clearly say in this situation what you do. Aijun WANG(China Telecom): We think policy model is interesting , we want to use it to deal with some complex issue in our system, but the current version is difficult, we want to see some simple examples, and also next year some demos. Joe: By doing the examples it will show how this works. Not sure how to make it more simple. Aijun WANG: There are several kind of services and policies. So we should have a clear map of these models. Dan King: Need to have more discussion on the mailing list. Please send a summary to the list to show if you have discussions between authors. 3.3 SUPA Policy-based Management Framework = 10 min draft-liu-supa-policy-based-management-framework-02 Presenter: Will(Shucheng) LIU Will Liu to the SUPA Group: whether we should split the design time and running time in this figure Bert Wijnen: Yes, it is good to separate design time and running time in this figure Dan King : Important to show how SUPA can be used. Help new participants, how it can be used and applied. Models could look complex. If we show how to use the data model components on examples it will be good to demonstrate the applicability if SUPA. What are the issues and gaps? 4. Other I-Ds 5.1 Examples based on draft-cheng-supa-applicability-00 Presenter: Georgios Dan King: Some WGs are talking about new service modeling work. Applicability draft should try to reach out some of these IETF work. Bert: Does that mean we need to standardize a number of conditions and actions on boxes from different vendors? Georgios: We need more discussion on this later. Ying Cheng(China Unicom): Thanks for Georgios's presentation on applicability draft. In order to respond to the proposal of Nevil before the meeting in email list, I would like to take this opportunity to propose to start with VPC (use case 2) and instant VPN (use case 5) in the next step , whose similar implementation can be found in China Unicom and where SUPA DM and IM can help to enable the scalable and consistent programmatic control. Bert: Examples are described at a high level of abstraction. Need to be more specific. Joel: It depends on the policy system available. There are some that support actions like, find a better place to use or upload, some others can require firewall functions. We'd like to see more details, which can be more meaningful , e.g., some actions can be references to objects of some existing YANG models. Will: Fully agree with Joel, after we get the feedback from the operators, we should figure out what are the existing service models and resource models in IETF for these examples from operators. Bert: I'd like to understand is IM or DM used in these examples? Suggest to make it clear. Goergios: You could actually use both. Will: Bert's two questions, this one and previous one are both actually related framework. Dan King: It will be useful to point these use case to the models in IETF or other SDOs, including opensource project. Joel: For this example(instant create VPN), the action is to point to an existing service model, asking for specific VPN with requested parameters. Aijun WANG: In network there are many event and actions, can SUPA standardize all these? Georgios: We need to collect requirements from the SUPA group on what type of events, condition, and actions they would like to have. Then we need to make a prioritization, on which of these events, conditions, actions will be used. Will LIU: Addition answer to Aijun's question, in our charter and framework we said that we would define a guideline form IM to DM, so that for SUPA WG we could generate DM based on the guideline and the use cases. Later, other operators can use IM and the guideline generate DM for themselves. 5. Any Other Business Presentation slides will be available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials.html (search for SUPA in the Operations and Management Area)