These are the combined minutes for the first (A-ril 22, 2020) ad second (April 29, 202) inteim NFSv4 sessions.
The second session minutes and blue sheet appear first. The first session minutes and blue sheets follow.
===== START OF SECOND SESSION =====
Second Session (2020-04-29)
Notes
=====
=== Introduction including NOTE WELL. Agenda Bashing (D. Noveck - 10m)
David Noveck opened meeting, presenting note well.
In the agenda bashing Chuck Lever noted that he is working on updating the draft
on requirements for computational storage.
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cel-nfsv4-comp-stor-reqs/)
=== Progress and plans use of NVMe in connection with pNFS. (S, Faibish - 20m)
Discussion of progress and plans for standards-track
document describing use of NVMe in connection with pNFS.
Slides sent to list and uploaded to meeting materials.
Sorin to work on draft, refreshing Hellwig's prior work, with David Black, for consideration to move forward.
=== Potential use of github in connection with managing working group documents. (C. Lever, L. Eggert - 15m)
Will describe potential use of github in connection with managing working group documents. Lars will provide a demo illustrating how this is used in the Quic WG.
Chuck gave background on Haynes prior use, and QUIC WG use to manage docs and change history and discussion. Lars did demo, no standard for IETF use of github. QUIC is pretty aggressive in its use.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-git-using-github/ from Magnus.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-git-github-wg-configuration/ from Magnus.
Discussion.
=== Discussion of directory performance scalability. (C. Lever, 15 min.)
See slides.
=== Discussion of possible work to distribute metadata operations, without any attempt to stripe directories. (D. Noveck, 15 min.)
Pre-proposal to improve parallelism of directory operations. Similar ground to Chuck Lever’s work, but different. Directory delegations in RFC 5661 seem to be not implemented. Noveck would like a discussion on the list as to why it was not implemented.
Directory delegations to take on write, but no one took on read delegations. Need to understand why. Mail list discussion.
Tom Haynes is unsure of statement that file delegations are not performant. Noveck said maybe there are environments it has proven not useful.
Wants to take to list, to see interest and address Chuck Lever's questions.
=== Discussion of proposed storage compression attributes. (S Faibish, 15 min.)
Follow on to Montreal proposal. See slides. Proposal for RECOMMENDED attributes as hints to underlying strage as to compressibility of data.
Chuck suggests don't use extended attributes, use fattr4 - feedback fri Montreal discussion.
=== Extensions to RDDP protocols in support of memory placement and “push mode” (T. Talpey, 15 min).
Background and upcoming
outlook for extensions to RDDP protocols in support of memory placement and
“push mode” including discussion of whether NFSv4 is an appropriate working
group for the effort, in place of former RDDP
Flush extension with three new operations. See slides. Similar to proposal in Infiniband Trade Association. Does not include VERIFY.
2016 doc https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-talpey-rdma-commit/, and work offline since then. Ask today of whether to take on as NFS V4 WG item.
The 2016 draft is specifically an iWarp extension. Would have to discuss extending it.
May be related to the pNFS push mode that was pre
=== Discussion of potential work to enable new RPC transports, (C. Lever, 15 min.)
Including Quic, MpTcp and, Within RPC-TLS, potential work to enable user certs or EAP.
Ran out of time. Take it to the list.
----------
Blue Sheet
==========
List of attendees - Second Session (2020-04-29)
1. Magnus Westerlund, Ericsson
2. Alex McDonald, NetApp
3. David Black, Dell EMC
4. Brian Pawlowski, DriveScale
5. Chuck Lever, Oracle
6. Tom Talpey, Microsoft
7. Sorin Faibish - Senior DE - DellEMC
8. Daniel Gryniewicz
9. Martin Duke
10. Lars Eggert, NetApp
11. J. Bruce Fields
12. Philip Shilane. Dell EMC
13. Thomas Haynes, Hammerspace
14. Joey Salazar, ARTICLE 19
What is this link?
https://docs.ceph.com/docs/master/radosgw/placement
===== END OF SECOND SESSION =====
===== START OF FIRST SESSION =====
First Session (2020-04-22)
=== Introduction including NOTE WELL. and Agenda Bashing (D. Noveck - 5m)
Our first Webex meeting because of Covid-19.
=== Quick review of document status and issues. (D. Noveck - 5m)
Will include:
- Documents that have reached their milestones but are not yet RFCs.
- Expected documents that are expected to get milestones soon.
Reached goal on NFSv4.1 Trunking. RFC editing 51 days.
RPC Encryption by Default
(Recording enabled for Webex session)
See Dave's slides for status updates on documets.
=== Discussion of plans for draft-ietf-nfsv4-delstid. (T. Haynes - 15m)
See Tom Haynes slides.
"when do you anticipate code and spec?" - Dave. To Haynes to set dates: times by next meeting (or sooner -- beepy).
Question on two models of time, from Tom Talpey. Unsyncohronized clocks from client/server and server (MDS). Force to the MDS time on receipt.
Need time to work on WCC portion.
=== Summary of objections and change in direction for draft-ietf-nfsv4-integrity-measurement. (C. Lever - 15m)
A new document that describes the on-disk IMA format is under way, but is not yet public due to license constraints.
See Chuck's slides. Reporting stumbling block after IETF 105. Legal issue on GPLv2 code as basis for work. Chuck is checking with lawyer and Linux Fundation. This is preventing sharing further information.
Tom Talpey and Chuck back and forth on Merkle Tree size.
=== Discussion of progress and remaining issues for RPC-over-RDMA Version 2 (C. Lever - 15m)
as defined by draft-ietf- nfsv4-rpcrdma-version-two and draft-ietf-nfsv4-nfs- ulb-v2.
Check Webex recording.
Position zero read chunk explanation by Tom Talpey.
Linux implementtation support ROCE, iWARP and IB. Other implementations do 2 of 3. Tom mentioned support for ROCEv2. Chuck mentioned soft iWarp. Tom mentioned soft ROCE for interoperability testing.
=== Comments on RPC TLS (C. Lever - 5m)
MAgnus - CID for TLS discussion.
AI: Chuck to merge in Magnus comments and submit new revision by end of week.
Magnus plan to go to IETF last call after changes.
i Sorin will review
=== Discussion of plans and choices for an eventual rfc5661bis (D. Noveck - 10m)
Still need a single docuument describing 5661. Internationalization (RFC 7530 - reasonable).
Please go to Dave's slides for plans. Slide 6. Include pNFS in bis doocument or separate to a differnt document - Chuck? Magnus - take the outcoing RFC, chop document up into a couple related pieces...
AI: Take to list on splitting bis document to simplify some parts of review/editing process. Magnus wants us to think about document structure for review process. beepy/Noveck to discuss proposal.
Tigran asked about spec vs. implemntatiom feedback loop. Specifically on TLS. Haynes - there are implementations.
=== Description of current and expected work in providing cleanup for NFSv4 internationalization (D. Noveck - 10m)
in order to support an eventual rfc5661bis.
See the slides for the details of complexity to resolve the internationalization issues. May need outside help on reviewing the I-D from Noveck.
=== Discussion of issues and choices in providing a new standards-track document dealing with NFSv4 security (D. Noveck - 20m)
To be referenced by an eventual rfc5661bis.
Magnus - substantial discussion expected including on threat analysis.
Mark Baushke asked about client vs. user strong authentication. RPCSEC-GSS provides client user authentication - Noveck. Needs reconciliation.
AI: Need clarifiction on user vs. client authentication - some context as we move to TLS.
=== Evaluation of meeting and suggestions for improvement (All, whatever's left)
AI: Tom Haynes to give dates for draft-ietf-nfsv4-delstid milestones.
AI: Chuck to drive review of RPC-RDMA v2. Needs input.
=== Discussion of rfc5661bis (D. Noveck - 10m)
See slides?
Test
webex: 17 people
jabber: 3 people
=== Blue Sheet ===
- Magnus Westerlund, Ericsson
- Brian Pawlowski, DriveScale
- David Noveck, NetApp
- Alex McDonald, NetApp
- Thomas Haynes, hammespae
- Martin Duke, F5 Networks
- Daniel Gryniewicz, Red Hat
- Frank Filz, Red Hat
- Sorin Faibish DellEMC
- Tom Talpey, Microsoft
- Tigran Mkrtchyan, Spy Intl
- Chuck Lever, Oracle
- Lars Eggert, NetApp
- Martin Duke, F5 Networks
- Jorge Mora, NetApp
- Mark D Baushke, Juniper Networks, Inc.
- Michael Breuer, ilSF
- Joey Salazar, ARTICLE 19
===== END OF FIRST SESSION =====