IETF
dispatch@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, November 13, 2017< ^ >
jeffpc@jabber.org has set the subject to: DISPATCH WG session
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[00:00:39] Jeffpc has set the subject to: DISPATCH WG session
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[01:25:19] resnick is jabber scribing. Please preface your comments with “Mic:” if you want them read at the microphone in the room.
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[01:26:20] <resnick> Meeting materials here:
[01:26:20] <resnick> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/session/dispatch
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[01:32:04] <=JeffH> thank you for arranging for Dispatch and HTTPbis non-collision!!
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[01:32:18] <resnick> Note: It is currently 09:30; HTTPbis will begin promptly at 11:00.
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[01:32:52] resnick is jabber scribing. Please preface your comments with “Mic:” if you want them read at the microphone in the room.
[01:33:16] <resnick> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dispatch-master-slides/
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[01:33:52] <resnick> Murray currently speaking; giving the overall DISPATCH processes and procedures.
[01:34:09] Andrew Sullivan_5457 joins the room
[01:34:17] <resnick> Murray goes to floor mic to discuss draft-kucerawy-dispatch-zstd
[01:34:30] Douglas Stamper leaves the room
[01:35:08] John Levine joins the room
[01:35:19] <resnick> Martin Thompson at the mic.
[01:35:26] blassey joins the room
[01:35:45] <resnick> Harald Alvestrand at the mic.
[01:36:45] <resnick> Questions about the usefulness and the IPR situation.
[01:37:11] <resnick> Alexey Melnikov at the mic.
[01:37:54] <resnick> Answering Martin’s question regarding media type vs. transfer encoding.
[01:38:18] g.e.montenegro joins the room
[01:38:34] <resnick> Matin back at the mic.
[01:38:38] <resnick> Martin.
[01:39:01] <resnick> Alexey back at the mic.
[01:39:17] <resnick> Alexey offers to AD sponsor.
[01:39:29] <resnick> Moving on to AD updates.
[01:39:36] <resnick> Alexey gives his updates.
[01:40:04] Douglas Stamper joins the room
[01:41:34] <resnick> Adam Roach at the mic.
[01:42:03] <resnick> BoFs of the week and new WG mentioned.
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[01:43:05] <resnick> Ben Campbell on S/MIME for SIP and MSRP messaging.
[01:44:22] <resnick> Slides here:
[01:44:23] <resnick> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dispatch-secure-messaging/
[01:49:10] francesca joins the room
[01:50:17] <resnick> Sean Leonard at the mic.
[01:50:44] <resnick> Martin back at the mic.
[01:52:03] hildjj joins the room
[01:52:34] <resnick> Jon Peterson at the mic.
[01:52:59] frodek joins the room
[01:55:36] <resnick> Christer Holmberg at the mic.
[01:57:44] Kaoru Maeda leaves the room
[01:58:16] <resnick> Andrew Allen at the mic.
[01:58:32] <resnick> (And I’ve repeatedly added a “p
[01:58:38] <resnick> “ to Martin’s name.)
[01:58:51] <resnick> (I guess I’m extra fond of that letter.)
[01:59:27] <resnick> Martin Dolly at the mic.
[01:59:38] <resnick> Chairs ask the room whether worth solving.
[01:59:55] <resnick> Looking for volunteers.
[02:00:00] <resnick> Martin back at the mic.
[02:01:35] <resnick> Adam back at the mic.
[02:01:50] <resnick> Who would be willing to work on this?
[02:02:04] <resnick> Stephen Farrell at the mic.
[02:03:06] <resnick> Jon back at the mic.
[02:04:30] <resnick> Jim Fenton at the mic.
[02:05:46] <sftcd> jon/jim's comments may suggest there's scope for a "securing password reset messages and similar" WG, if there were interest in that
[02:06:10] Barry Leiba joins the room
[02:06:21] <sftcd> mind you I do wonder if people who lose their password will manage to maintain access to their private key
[02:06:44] Samuel Weiler leaves the room
[02:07:24] <resnick> Jon back at the mic.
[02:07:52] <resnick> Christer back at the mic.
[02:08:41] <resnick> Sean back at the mic.
[02:09:25] herver joins the room
[02:09:41] <resnick> Mary Barnes repeats question of who would be willing to work on this.
[02:09:53] <resnick> 4 people in the room raise hands.
[02:11:00] <Andrew Sullivan> I am also in the room as a John backup
[02:11:05] <Andrew Sullivan> in case that is needed
[02:11:19] <resnick> John Klensin presenting.
[02:11:20] <Barry Leiba> Moi aussi
[02:11:32] <Cullen Jennings> Just for the chairs driving stuff, do we have names of the 4 people that would help on S/MIME ?
[02:11:48] <resnick> Your jabber scribe did not notice.
[02:12:26] <Magnus Westerlund> Christer Holmberg was one that raised his hand.
[02:12:29] <resnick> Slides here:
[02:12:29] <resnick> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dispatch-i18n-internalization-again/
[02:13:28] <Andrew Sullivan> Key thing here: the problems are Bigger Than You Think (the eye chart is less important than the top line.)
[02:15:43] <sftcd> @andrew: is there a realistic prospect of progress on some of those Big problems? (just wondering)
[02:16:05] <Andrew Sullivan> That's the question we're trying to ask in this
[02:16:38] <Andrew Sullivan> The basic problem is that we've attempted to do this, and then we've left things to rot kind of badly, and we either need to do something about this or give up for real
[02:16:53] <sftcd> which is != who wants to work on/fix this, right?
[02:17:16] <Andrew Sullivan> Well, if we _had_ some people to work on it that would be a necessary condition :)
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[02:18:05] <Andrew Sullivan> I have just been reminded, for instance, that of the people behind the drafts listed, I am the only person at this IETF meeting.  That may be a sign of something.
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[02:18:41] <Andrew Sullivan> two hands, but I'm one of the offenders
[02:18:52] <resnick> I’m pretty offensive as well.
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[02:22:54] ted.h joins the room
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[02:23:42] <sftcd> in possibly unrelated news, I was at a great talk about endangered languages a while back (https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/can-you-bring-a-language-back-from-the-dead-1.3159014) so I also wonder if that being more interesting is another sign of something ;-)
[02:23:56] <Mary Barnes> To cullen's questioni - it was 3gpp folks including Martin Dolly, Christer and I think Andrew Allen.
[02:25:14] <Mary Barnes> For folks participating remotely, we did not arrange a remote meetecho presentation for John (I had thought he'd be here).  So, post here if you want the microphone and we can shut John off as we have no way to see the queue on the screen right now.
[02:25:49] <meetecho> Mary Barnes: actually John is in as speaker, so he can unmute/mute at will, no need for him to get through the queue
[02:26:06] <meetecho> we sent him instructions as soon as we knew he'd be presenting
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[02:27:19] <Mary Barnes> Okay. But, I can't see the queue up front here.
[02:28:37] <resnick> Pete Resnick at the mic.
[02:28:42] <resnick> Leslie Daigle at the mic.
[02:32:23] <resnick> Barry Leiba at the mic.
[02:32:43] <resnick> (Can the chairs put me back in the queue somewhere?)
[02:33:44] <Mary Barnes> Pete - I'll put you after Ted if that's okay. And, then I'll switch back to John.
[02:33:48] <resnick> Ack.
[02:34:11] <resnick> Yoshiro Yoneya at the mic.
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[02:34:59] <resnick> Andrew Sullivan at the mic.
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[02:37:27] <resnick> Ted Hardie at the mic.
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[02:40:05] <Andrew Sullivan> I think I wasn't arguing though that we needed this interface; I think the problem is that we need to _embrace_ the fact that we have UIish things here, but I don't know how to do that.
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[02:41:36] <resnick> Pete Resnick at the mic.
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[02:43:08] <Andrew Sullivan> I am keenly interested in getting a dunce cap or some other appropriate village idiot outfot
[02:43:18] <Andrew Sullivan> (for me, note!)
[02:43:29] <ted.h> Amazon has your back on that one.
[02:43:38] <Andrew Sullivan> ah, good point.  I should do that.
[02:44:02] <ted.h> https://www.amazon.com/Wilton-Adult-Dunce-Cap/dp/B000JGAF6Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510541025&sr=8-1&keywords=dunce+cap&dpID=31uT8opGysL&preST=_SX342_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
[02:44:21] <Mary Barnes> John - you're up next although we just have Joe Hildebrand in queue if you want to finish the queue before you get the floor back.
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[02:44:40] <resnick> Leslie Daigle at the mic,
[02:44:48] <Barry Leiba> JOHNKL is in the queue.  I like that: "JOHNKL".
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[02:45:17] <resnick> Joe Hildebrand at the mic.
[02:46:08] <resnick> (I’d like to be back in the queue after John.)
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[02:46:52] <=JeffH> joe — can u type in here what you suggested?
[02:46:56] <ted.h> Getting an agreement of what order the heuristic approaches occur in is something WHATWG has tried. (in re: hildjj's comment)
[02:46:59] <Martin Thomson> Joe sings... "You may say I'm a dreamer."
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[02:48:08] <hildjj> define an identifier type that looks like [[{context-map}, "label"]…
[02:48:30] <hildjj> you might provide a mapping back into the existing systems, but that would be secondary
[02:48:47] <Martin Thomson> hildjj: "You may say I'm a dreamer."
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[02:49:43] <=JeffH> hildjj thx
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[02:50:36] <resnick> Joe back at the mic.
[02:51:00] <Mary Barnes> Pete - you're up next - sorry I was going to put you up before Joe…
[02:51:22] <resnick> No worries.
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[02:53:02] <=JeffH> i was going to get up to mic and point out that there's a 3d party in this mix at least that is a 1st-order participant and that is W3C/WHATWG
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[02:53:09] <=JeffH> …in my experience
[02:53:36] <Andrew Sullivan> yes
[02:53:43] <hildjj> The WHATWG is doing a new definition of URLs at the moment, yes.
[02:53:44] <ted.h> @=JeffH and ICANN, who cares about specific DNS labels
[02:53:53] <resnick> Barry back at the mic.
[02:53:53] <hildjj> i see that as an opportunity if we're careful.
[02:54:07] <=JeffH> ted.h — yep
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[02:55:10] <sftcd> I think I've heard the "people say it's simple but it isn't" many more times than I've heard people say "it's simple"
[02:55:37] <=JeffH> sftcd: maybe it will (finally) sink in?    ;-)
[02:55:37] <wseltzer> W3C is now in the room
[02:55:51] <resnick> Adam back at the mic.
[02:56:21] <resnick> Leslie back at the mic.
[02:56:44] <resnick> Martin back at the mic.
[02:56:48] <Andrew Sullivan> We tried to have a BoF about this (led by IAB) several IETFs ago, and it was a total failure
[02:56:55] <sftcd> @jeff: the opposite actually - I think many people know it's not simple so constantly saying "don't keep saying it's simple" seems to me to indicate one part of the breakage
[02:57:00] <=JeffH> wseltzer: but is the WHATWG ?
[02:57:07] <resnick> Barry at the mic.
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