IETF
i18nrp
i18nrp@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 16, 2018< ^ >
stpeter has set the subject to: i18nrp - Internationalization Review Procedures BoF, IETF 102
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[14:22:03] stpeter joins the room
[14:56:23] stpeter leaves the room
[15:24:42] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[16:12:24] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[16:54:49] stpeter joins the room
[17:17:24] stpeter leaves the room
[17:17:35] meetecho joins the room
[17:23:34] stpeter joins the room
[17:30:07] <stpeter> NOTE: The BoF starts at 14:30, not 13:30!
[17:43:20] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[18:10:15] stpeter leaves the room
[18:11:46] andrew sullivan joins the room
[18:12:03] stpeter joins the room
[18:22:36] OzOBlGYh joins the room
[18:23:14] Jean Mahoney joins the room
[18:25:13] Lucien Castex joins the room
[18:25:15] Don Hollander joins the room
[18:27:05] Valery Smyslov joins the room
[18:28:24] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[18:28:29] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[18:29:04] Bev Corwin joins the room
[18:30:51] resnick joins the room
[18:31:07] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[18:31:34] <stpeter> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-102-i18nrp
[18:31:34] ted.h joins the room
[18:31:36] Zoe Braiterman joins the room
[18:32:37] m&m joins the room
[18:32:53] ben joins the room
[18:32:55] Barry Leiba joins the room
[18:33:04] <ted.h> If you want something reflected to the room, please put MIC: in front of your comment.
[18:33:05] Dave Crocker joins the room
[18:33:20] Arle Lommel joins the room
[18:33:34] <ted.h> (If you don't realize it until afterwards, "MIC: upthread" is fine)
[18:33:40] <Dave Crocker> Pete's voice is distorting.  (Overmodulating.)
[18:34:04] Valery Smyslov joins the room
[18:34:05] <Barry Leiba> Better?
[18:34:09] danyork joins the room
[18:34:31] <Dave Crocker> a bit
[18:34:51] <Barry Leiba> meetecho: can we have the gain from the mic into the audio feed backed off a bit?
[18:34:56] wseltzer@jabber.org joins the room
[18:35:00] nllz joins the room
[18:35:14] Suzanne joins the room
[18:36:06] <meetecho> Do you mean for remote attendees, or in the room?
[18:36:08] Simon Pietro Romano joins the room
[18:36:11] <Barry Leiba> remote
[18:36:21] <Barry Leiba> They say it's overmodulated and distorting.
[18:36:35] Martin Casanova joins the room
[18:36:37] <meetecho> We're monitoring it here and it sounds fine, actually
[18:36:41] <Barry Leiba> OK
[18:36:54] <meetecho> Is it just some of the mics?
[18:37:09] <Barry Leiba> It was when Pete Resnick was taking on the chair mic.
[18:37:24] <Barry Leiba> Peter St Andre is speaking now, and he might be quieter.
[18:37:36] resnick is loud to begin with, so take that FWIW.
[18:37:42] <Barry Leiba> He...
[18:38:38] <Dave Crocker> (meetecho) I think it was actual over-driving the mic, rather than anything electronic or software.
[18:38:49] <resnick> I’ll try to behave myself.
[18:39:17] <Barry Leiba> Dave: it sounded fine in the room (if loud), and wasn't distorted.
[18:40:06] <Dave Crocker> Ahh.  Interesting.  Mumble.
[18:40:25] mark svancarek joins the room
[18:40:32] fenton joins the room
[18:40:40] Gurshabad Grover joins the room
[18:41:19] <stpeter> I try to use my radio voice. :-)
[18:42:18] <danyork> That was John Klensin at the mic
[18:42:24] <danyork> This is John Levine at mic
[18:43:19] <ted.h> Is art-art still around?
[18:43:27] <stpeter> sort of?
[18:43:32] <m&m> somewhat
[18:43:50] H. Anthony Chan joins the room
[18:43:56] <ted.h> Okay.  It had i18n as one of its touchpoints at one point, but if it is moribund using it here doesn't make that much sense.
[18:44:28] Gurshabad Grover leaves the room
[18:45:19] <Arle Lommel> Lost video and audio on this end. Not sure which end the problem is on.
[18:45:31] <Arle Lommel> Probably mine, since the chat went through.
[18:45:33] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[18:45:46] <stpeter> Arle Lommel: noted - anyone else?
[18:46:20] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[18:46:28] <Arle Lommel> Now I have video, but no audio. Maybe I need to restart.
[18:46:56] <Jonathan Lennox> Arle: if you mention Meetecho by name, they will appear
[18:47:05] Suzanne leaves the room
[18:47:08] Suzanne joins the room
[18:47:22] <meetecho> Arle Lommel: yes, you may want to try and rejoin
[18:47:25] <Arle Lommel> Restarting the browser seems to have helped.
[18:47:40] <meetecho> (y)
[18:47:51] <Arle Lommel> Restarting the browser helped.
[18:48:02] Valery Smyslov joins the room
[18:48:36] <Arle Lommel> Sorry. It appears there are lingering problems. I think it's a bandwidth issue here, so ignore me.
[18:51:20] Stephane Couture joins the room
[18:51:29] <meetecho> Arle Lommel: just FYI, you can disable some of the streams to see if it helps, e.g., close the speaker's feed and just keep slides
[18:51:42] <meetecho> You just need to hover on the feed you want to disable and hit the X icon
[18:51:47] <meetecho> You can reopen them at any time later
[18:54:23] Barry Leiba leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[18:54:28] Barry Leiba joins the room
[18:57:38] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[19:01:37] <danyork> Chris Newman at mic
[19:01:42] <danyork> John Klensin at mic
[19:01:53] <Arle Lommel> As an outsider, quick question about a Directorate: Does a directorate have the power to enforce decisions?
[19:02:26] <ted.h> Hi Arie, what does "enforce" mean here?
[19:02:28] Valery Smyslov joins the room
[19:02:37] <Suzanne> @arle: my understanding has always been that the AD decides whether to listen to the directorate, and AD decisions (advised by directorate or otherwise) are subject to appeal.
[19:02:54] <Suzanne> so "enforcement" as a concept doesn't quite fit
[19:02:54] <danyork> Alissa Cooper at mic
[19:03:03] <ted.h> They can ask the AD to ensure the document doesn't progress without the issues being addressed.
[19:03:24] <danyork> Adam Roach at mic
[19:03:26] <Suzanne> @ted +1
[19:03:31] <Arle Lommel> Thanks, Suzanne and ted.h. Ted.h’s comment clarifies it for me.
[19:04:05] <danyork> Barry Leiba at mic
[19:04:11] <danyork> Whoops...
[19:04:12] <Arle Lommel> I was intrested in knowing if the directorate could have a blocking/slowing role. Otherwise if all you can do is advise, people could ignore advice, and that is a problem.
[19:04:15] <Barry Leiba> Chris Newman, actually
[19:04:17] <danyork> Barry sat down
[19:04:22] <danyork> Chris Newman at mic
[19:04:22] <Barry Leiba> I dood
[19:04:29] <danyork> Ted Hardie at mic
[19:04:33] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[19:05:08] <Barry Leiba> Arle, it's also the case these days that document editors and working groups take all comments seriously, even if they're not blocking.  So I'm less worried about that issue.
[19:05:40] <andrew sullivan> Also, people can always ignore stuff.  Part of the way things work here -- "so and so in the rough".
[19:05:50] <Arle Lommel> Thanks. This helps.
[19:07:29] <danyork> Harald Alvestrand at mic
[19:08:29] Valery Smyslov joins the room
[19:08:43] <danyork> (When I was a volunteer firefighter and EMT (many years ago), we had a similar definition for triage into the level of care given to people in a disaster situation.)
[19:08:48] <danyork> John Klensin at mic
[19:09:38] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[19:10:30] <danyork> Barry Leiba at mic
[19:11:49] <Don Hollander> Is there already an introductory tutorial?
[19:12:20] <andrew sullivan> Not really
[19:12:25] <stpeter> Don Hollander: not really - we've had tutorials before and could gather that information into a document
[19:12:45] <Don Hollander> Sounds to me like there's not enough people.
[19:12:45] <danyork> Right... there really is a need for a suite of documents that can help
[19:13:06] <Don Hollander> Training facilities will be useful first step
[19:13:43] <Suzanne> @don like so much else it's hard to accomplish on volunteer resources
[19:13:53] <Suzanne> a new problem, of course :-)
[19:14:25] <danyork> Mark Notingham at mic
[19:14:44] <fenton> I'm not sure the word 'triage' is really helping us here.
[19:15:44] <Barry Leiba> Jim: It's basically a binary filter: (1) documents we don't need to worry about, (2) documents that need a closer look.
[19:16:07] <Barry Leiba> Perhaps then we can take the "closer look" group and further divide them, but that requires the closer look to do.
[19:16:51] <fenton> Barry: So then it's a 'biage'.
[19:17:06] <Barry Leiba> Yeh, well...
[19:17:42] <Barry Leiba> The "tri" in "triage" doesn't come from "three", much as it sounds like it might.
[19:17:51] <Barry Leiba> It comes from "try".
[19:17:54] Suzanne leaves the room
[19:17:54] <andrew sullivan> No, there's a third category: "documents that are obviously dangerous but we know they're going ahead anyway."
[19:18:01] Suzanne joins the room
[19:18:21] <andrew sullivan> (so regardless of etymology)
[19:18:42] <ted.h> @Barry from French, from trier ‘separate out.’ The medical sense dates from the 1930s, from the military system of assessing the wounded on the battlefield.
[19:19:50] <ted.h> @Barry nicked from wiki, of course.
[19:19:56] <fenton> Barry: Wow, I was wrong on that etymology, wasn't I? Adding that to my "what I learned at IETF 102" list.
[19:19:58] <Barry Leiba> Bien sûr
[19:20:52] <Arle Lommel> If anyone decides to look out to the broader language community for experts, please contact me at alommel@csa-research.com. My employer can do some useful outreach in this area.
[19:21:32] <Barry Leiba> Arle: Thanks
[19:21:48] <Don Hollander> I've lost audio.
[19:21:56] mark svancarek leaves the room
[19:22:08] Don Hollander leaves the room
[19:22:24] mark svancarek joins the room
[19:22:37] <Arle Lommel> I'm leaving due to continuing problems with connectivity. Barry, please send me an e-mail and I can follow up with you.
[19:22:50] <mark svancarek> logged out and back in, audio was restored
[19:22:54] Don Hollander joins the room
[19:23:38] <Arle Lommel> Barry, I don't think this went through a minute ago. I'm going to drop off due to consistent connectivity problems. Please e-mail me directly in any event so I can discuss with you.
[19:23:53] <Barry Leiba> Yes, got the message; thanks, Arle.
[19:24:39] Arle Lommel leaves the room
[19:26:04] ben leaves the room
[19:27:15] <andrew sullivan> I don't think I was suggesting that we need to get perfect.  I'm more worried about us providing the justification for people to fork our protocols
[19:27:52] <andrew sullivan> 64183
[19:27:59] <andrew sullivan> oops, sorry
[19:28:36] mark svancarek leaves the room
[19:28:46] mark svancarek joins the room
[19:29:31] <danyork> Yes, this *could* be a way to involve newer people into IETF work. They may not know as much about protocols, but may know more about languages / i18n ... and be able to help out.
[19:30:19] <andrew sullivan> actually, part of the problem is precisely the "i18n/languages" thing: those are almost _opposite_ problems
[19:30:31] <andrew sullivan> (I'm exaggerating, but for a point)
[19:30:44] <andrew sullivan> there
[19:30:44] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[19:31:36] <andrew sullivan> there's a tendency to imagine that someone of another linguistic skill (on their part or ours) helps, whereas what it can actually do is make the problem worse.  That doesn't mean that it isn't a good basis for inspiring interst
[19:31:49] Dave Crocker leaves the room
[19:31:58] <andrew sullivan> but one needs evidence that the interest is in terms of i18n, not localization to another language
[19:32:46] Takahiro Nemoto joins the room
[19:32:53] <danyork> Yes... you are correct there is a definite difference between internationalization and localization... I was looping them together for the sake of simplicity.
[19:33:54] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[19:34:25] andrew sullivan leaves the room
[19:34:30] ted.h leaves the room
[19:34:52] bhoeneis joins the room
[19:35:06] Takahiro Nemoto leaves the room
[19:35:14] danyork leaves the room
[19:35:24] Suzanne leaves the room
[19:35:46] Jean Mahoney leaves the room
[19:35:48] Takahiro Nemoto joins the room
[19:35:55] meetecho leaves the room
[19:36:14] Stephane Couture leaves the room
[19:36:15] Don Hollander leaves the room
[19:36:15] Zoe Braiterman leaves the room
[19:36:15] H. Anthony Chan leaves the room
[19:36:15] Takahiro Nemoto leaves the room
[19:36:15] Lucien Castex leaves the room
[19:36:15] mark svancarek leaves the room
[19:36:15] Martin Casanova leaves the room
[19:36:15] Bev Corwin leaves the room
[19:36:15] Simon Pietro Romano leaves the room
[19:36:19] stpeter leaves the room
[19:36:54] fenton leaves the room
[19:38:03] resnick leaves the room
[19:38:54] bhoeneis leaves the room
[19:43:06] fenton joins the room
[19:43:08] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[19:43:22] fenton leaves the room
[19:47:06] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[19:47:24] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[19:47:56] ben joins the room
[19:49:42] nllz joins the room
[19:49:54] nllz leaves the room
[19:50:04] ben leaves the room
[19:51:24] wseltzer@jabber.org leaves the room
[19:51:36] ted.h joins the room
[19:51:50] ted.h leaves the room
[19:52:31] m&m leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[20:00:57] Suzanne joins the room
[20:01:57] bhoeneis joins the room
[20:05:54] wseltzer joins the room
[20:09:56] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[20:21:54] nllz leaves the room
[20:26:54] Suzanne leaves the room
[20:36:48] Suzanne joins the room
[20:45:25] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[20:45:25] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[20:50:30] resnick joins the room
[20:50:44] resnick leaves the room
[20:50:59] resnick joins the room
[20:57:51] wseltzer joins the room
[20:57:55] wseltzer leaves the room
[20:59:55] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[21:00:05] resnick leaves the room
[21:00:50] resnick joins the room
[21:03:25] Suzanne leaves the room
[21:08:54] resnick leaves the room
[21:11:11] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[21:12:25] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[21:21:55] bhoeneis leaves the room
[21:40:53] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[21:41:17] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[21:45:25] wseltzer leaves the room
[22:02:00] wseltzer joins the room
[22:11:58] Suzanne joins the room
[22:12:16] Suzanne leaves the room
[22:20:32] bhoeneis joins the room
[22:29:45] bhoeneis leaves the room
[23:47:55] wseltzer leaves the room
Powered by ejabberd - robust, scalable and extensible XMPP server Powered by Erlang Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS!