IETF
jose@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, 14 November 2011< ^ >
Room Configuration

GMT+0
[01:47:16] stpeter joins the room
[01:47:19] stpeter leaves the room
[03:43:08] tonyhansen joins the room
[03:44:36] tonyhansen has set the subject to: IETF 82
[04:05:29] jimsch joins the room
[04:31:06] jimsch leaves the room
[04:41:27] jimsch1 joins the room
[04:48:18] Sean Turner joins the room
[04:49:19] Linyi Tian joins the room
[04:49:48] <Linyi Tian> good afternoon
[04:49:55] <Sean Turner> hola!
[04:49:59] tandonghui joins the room
[04:50:14] linuxwolf joins the room
[04:50:40] linuxwolf is now known as Entity supposed known as Matthew Miller
[04:58:07] PHB joins the room
[04:58:37] <PHB> Where is the audio stream?
[04:59:18] Satoru Kanno joins the room
[04:59:34] <jimsch1> Do you need to link or just the audio?
[04:59:47] <PHB> just the link to the rstp streap
[05:00:00] <tonyhansen> sent in email just a few minutes ago
[05:00:10] <PHB> for some reason the tools liks to the wav that worketh not
[05:00:25] cabo joins the room
[05:00:48] <tonyhansen> I'm connected to the audio stream
[05:00:50] <jimsch1> http://ietf82streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf828.m3u
[05:00:55] Barry Leiba joins the room
[05:01:16] Meetecho Scribe joins the room
[05:01:46] shiomin joins the room
[05:01:51] richard.barnes joins the room
[05:02:20] MeetechoAudio joins the room
[05:02:43] richard.barnes leaves the room
[05:02:57] Simon Romano joins the room
[05:03:20] Paul Hoffman joins the room
[05:03:27] <Sean Turner> tony how does it sound?
[05:03:46] richard.barnes joins the room
[05:04:05] Kepeng joins the room
[05:04:09] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[05:04:23] Alex joins the room
[05:04:31] =JeffH joins the room
[05:04:34] <Meetecho Scribe> meetecho session available at www.meetecho.com/ietf82/jose
[05:04:42] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 1: Proposed Documents for JOSE: JSON Web Si
[05:04:59] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 2: Motivation
[05:05:01] lef_jp joins the room
[05:05:03] bkihara.l joins the room
[05:05:09] kazubu joins the room
[05:05:18] stpeter joins the room
[05:05:35] Ted Hardie joins the room
[05:05:37] <Paul Hoffman> Those who are actually remote: how does it sound?
[05:05:59] <PHB> Paul, can't get it to work at all
[05:06:08] <PHB> Meetecho won't let me in
[05:06:11] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Design Philosophy
[05:06:18] <PHB> the .m3u won't play on my windows box
[05:06:25] <stpeter> I'll be your jabber relay, please prefix comments and questions you'd like relayed with "MIC"
[05:06:33] yoiwa joins the room
[05:06:44] <Paul Hoffman> PHB: the .m3u for DANE worked for you this morning, yes?
[05:06:46] <Linyi Tian> chair has some jetlags:)
[05:06:47] mkatagi joins the room
[05:06:53] <PHB> Ah, got it going
[05:06:59] <PHB> VLC does it
[05:07:09] <Alex> PHP: you can try the Meetecho RTSP stream at rtsp://taipei1.conf.meetecho.com/3330025.sdp
[05:07:09] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Design Goals
[05:07:16] <Paul Hoffman> PHB: please send me offline what you were trying that didn't work. I can explain why later.
[05:07:53] <Linyi Tian> or the projector has some jet lags
[05:09:17] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 5: Background (1)
[05:11:34] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 6: Background (2)
[05:12:59] Klaas Wierenga joins the room
[05:14:03] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 7: Background (3)
[05:15:38] <Linyi Tian> where to find the drafts since they are not listed in the WG charter page?
[05:15:52] <Linyi Tian> http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jose/, nothing there
[05:16:12] <PHB> Well someone will file a stupid patent and in ten years time some of us will get some consulting work as expert witnesses in a case that goes nowhere
[05:16:26] <stpeter> PHB: :)
[05:16:34] Bran, Cary joins the room
[05:16:40] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 8: JSON Web Signature (JWS)
[05:16:47] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 8: JSON Web Signature (JWS)
[05:16:51] <Barry Leiba> The draft names are listed in Mike's slides.
[05:17:08] <stpeter> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/82/materials.html#wg-jose
[05:17:26] <Barry Leiba> It's too bad they aren't named "draft-jones-jose-...", but there ya go.
[05:17:31] <Entity supposed known as Matthew Miller> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-json-web-key
[05:17:33] <Linyi Tian> thanks, peter. i mean the real I-D draft
[05:17:39] <stpeter> see also https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=json-web&activeDrafts=on&search_submit=
[05:17:41] <Entity supposed known as Matthew Miller> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-json-web-signature
[05:17:44] <Linyi Tian> ok, thanks
[05:17:52] <stpeter> the datatracker is your friend :)
[05:17:59] <Entity supposed known as Matthew Miller> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-json-web-encryption
[05:18:09] <Linyi Tian> yeah.
[05:18:10] <stpeter> that was Sean Turner at the mic
[05:18:11] EKR joins the room
[05:18:18] <EKR> I propose Message Integrity Check
[05:18:22] <PHB> also HMAC != MAC
[05:18:42] <EKR> HMAC \subset MAC
[05:18:52] <PHB> exactly
[05:18:56] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 9: JWS Header Example
[05:19:52] Entity supposed known as Matthew Miller leaves the room
[05:20:09] richard.barnes leaves the room
[05:20:10] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 10: JWS Payload Example
[05:20:11] linuxwolf joins the room
[05:20:28] <PHB> base64url can also be used in variable names !
[05:20:46] Enrico Marocco joins the room
[05:21:00] richard.barnes joins the room
[05:21:36] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 11: JWS Signing Input
[05:21:46] <richard.barnes> if JWT == "jot", then JWS == "jaws"?
[05:21:46] <Meetecho Scribe> meetecho session available at www.meetecho.com/ietf82/jose
[05:22:21] <linuxwolf> and JWE == "gee"?
[05:22:30] sftcd joins the room
[05:22:31] <EKR> and JOSE is JAWAS
[05:22:36] <stpeter> richard.barnes: right, and the "e" in JOSE is silent, so it is pronounced "JOES" :P
[05:22:43] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 12: JWS Signature
[05:22:43] <richard.barnes> linuxwolf: +1
[05:22:49] <linuxwolf> stpeter: nice (-:
[05:22:51] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 13: JWS Header Parameters
[05:22:58] <richard.barnes> stpeter: i was thinking we could add in the 'integrity' and make it "josie"
[05:24:11] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 14: JWS Algorithm Identifiers
[05:24:30] <stpeter> BTW, to repeat, I'm your jabber relay, so please prefix comments and questions you'd like relayed with "MIC"
[05:25:03] <EKR> So if I write "I propose we use the term MIC to indicate signatures and MAC" what will you do?
[05:25:53] <stpeter> EKR: did I forget to mention that I ignore all comments from people named "EKR"?
[05:26:14] <linuxwolf> stpeter: he didn't "MIC" it
[05:26:27] <EKR> MIC: I would vote for keeping these in the same document, since while they are differnet in terms of properties they are isomorphic in terms of message preparation and verification process.
[05:27:17] mlepinski joins the room
[05:27:18] semery joins the room
[05:27:19] <EKR> MIC: i agree we should support HMAC-SHA256. I agree it shouldn't be called a signature, but I don't care what we call the document.
[05:27:40] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 15: JSON Web Encryption (JWE)
[05:27:54] <Sean Turner> btw - way to go meetcho scribe!
[05:28:46] <tonyhansen> is meetecho up for jose?
[05:28:52] <stpeter> tonyhansen: yes
[05:29:01] <stpeter> http://www.meetecho.com/ietf82/jose
[05:29:08] <PHB> MIC: Mandatory to implement is something that end applications may well want to override in any case
[05:29:11] stpeter has set the subject to: IETF 82 | www.meetecho.com/ietf82/jose
[05:29:27] clippy joins the room
[05:29:31] <tonyhansen> cool
[05:29:35] <PHB> (scrub that, typed too slow)
[05:29:43] <Linyi Tian> i got error when i try to join
[05:29:43] <stpeter> PHB: OK
[05:29:44] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[05:29:55] <stpeter> PHB: there might be an audio lag, not sure
[05:30:26] <Simon Romano> Try it out...it should be real-time.
[05:30:29] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 16: JWE Header Example
[05:30:50] Tony Hansen joins the room
[05:31:33] <EKR> "error joining room"
[05:31:51] <EKR> OK, I'm now in the room but I see no slides
[05:32:02] <EKR> Is there someone to IM with to support this?
[05:32:03] chris-lewis joins the room
[05:32:05] <Linyi Tian> i have same issue with "EKR" entity:)
[05:32:11] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 16: JWE Header Example
[05:32:20] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[05:32:22] <stpeter> EKR: Simon Romano can probably help
[05:32:24] Tony Hansen joins the room
[05:32:32] <Alex> EKR: try a different username
[05:32:51] <Alex> it might be a matter of conflict of usernames, as you already are in the jabber room...
[05:33:22] chris-lewis leaves the room
[05:33:25] <EKR> now it claims I am already visiting. gah
[05:33:32] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[05:33:36] Tony Hansen joins the room
[05:33:41] <EKR> error leaving room!
[05:34:27] EKR2 joins the room
[05:34:27] <stpeter> Alex: let's chat about that offline -- I think the IETF jabber server might be missing a nice feature to allow multiple connections using the nickname
[05:34:40] ben joins the room
[05:34:54] <EKR> ok, so different username worked
[05:34:55] <stpeter> (the same nickname...)
[05:35:02] <Alex> :)
[05:35:36] <EKR> Since I actually want to use Adium for Jabber, that's a hair lame
[05:35:49] PHB3 joins the room
[05:35:51] <Sean Turner> I think the cat's funny too
[05:35:56] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 17: JWE Header Parameters
[05:37:24] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 18: JWE Key Encryption Alg Identifiers
[05:37:51] <Sean Turner> was any thought given to use AES Key Wrap with Padding?
[05:38:12] <stpeter> Sean Turner: shall I relay that to the mic? ;-)
[05:38:18] <Sean Turner> nah
[05:38:52] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 19: JWE Plaintext Encryption Alg Identifiers
[05:38:58] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 20: JSON Web Key (JWK)
[05:39:29] weiyinxing joins the room
[05:40:47] <PHB> MIC: A housecleaning on crypto algorithm registries is overdue in any case. We discovered that on the DECADE ni work
[05:41:32] <Sean Turner> oh so agree
[05:42:09] <stpeter> +1 to preventing registry profusion
[05:42:41] <PHB> There should be one registry for the algorithms we want people to use
[05:42:56] <PHB> And then a garbage can for the vanity crypto
[05:43:27] <Sean Turner> +1
[05:43:30] richard.barnes leaves the room
[05:43:34] richard.barnes joins the room
[05:43:35] <mlepinski> +1
[05:43:41] <EKR> MIC: I'd like to put in a pitch for just supporting private keys. There are reasons to want this (e.g., BrowserId). I realize there was some contention about this when the WG was chartered, but it's hard for me to recall what the real objections really were.
[05:43:42] <linuxwolf> +1
[05:44:14] <richard.barnes> "JWK" == "jock" ?
[05:44:38] =JeffH leaves the room
[05:44:52] <EKR> MIC: I didn't mean no public keys, obviously, I meant both public and private :)
[05:44:56] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 21: JWK Example
[05:45:07] <stpeter> EKR: I think that was clear, yes
[05:45:21] <EKR> wait, what? Hannes is objecting to something that might be useful based on what?
[05:45:30] =JeffH joins the room
[05:45:35] <stpeter> private keys only would be uninteresting
[05:45:42] <stpeter> EKR: not sure what his point was :)
[05:45:51] <EKR> Well, with RSA private keys contain public keys, so it's sort of convenient if you just pass private keys around
[05:46:18] <stpeter> Leif Johansson at the mic
[05:47:59] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 22: Refactoring for JOSE
[05:48:47] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 23: Open Issues
[05:50:06] mkatagi leaves the room
[05:52:13] Klaas Wierenga leaves the room
[05:52:43] EKR2 leaves the room
[05:53:54] <stpeter> Rich Alimi at the mic, preceded by Matt Miller
[05:53:58] mkatagi joins the room
[05:54:00] resnick joins the room
[05:54:35] EKR leaves the room
[05:55:23] EKR joins the room
[05:57:08] EKR2 joins the room
[05:57:25] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 24: Related Work
[05:59:09] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 25: Next Steps
[05:59:15] <EKR> I'm not on audio, but I want to preemptively hum for accepting these :)
[05:59:24] <stpeter> EKR: noted!
[06:00:01] <Simon Romano> EKR: next time, if you want to proactively participate, just let us know...
[06:00:08] <Simon Romano> We can try and arrange for this.
[06:00:19] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[06:00:28] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[06:00:40] <EKR> Simon, I actually wnat to arrange that for TLS. Can you ping me privately to talk about that?
[06:00:54] <Simon Romano> Sure...
[06:01:04] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 1: JOSE Feature Set
[06:01:11] <resnick> Bah! Humming for document adoption? Just ask for objections to adoption and move on if none. No hum necessary.
[06:01:25] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 2: Capability List from CMS (1)
[06:02:46] Tony Hansen joins the room
[06:03:02] <stpeter> resnick: rightio
[06:04:02] <resnick> Maybe I'll get up to the mic and object to adoption, on the grounds that I've always thought Mike was not such a nice guy and I can't stand his writing style. Then the chair will need to take the sense of the room and a hum will be useful. ;-)
[06:04:21] <EKR> Or that you hated the movie Jaws
[06:04:32] <resnick> Oooo! I like that better ekr!
[06:05:16] <PHB> I told them so....
[06:05:29] <PHB> I told them canonicalization was a duff idea as well
[06:05:36] <PHB> Like those were hard calls
[06:06:20] Bran, Cary leaves the room
[06:08:02] <Sean Turner> doesn't this have to include the time under the signature!?
[06:09:10] <PHB> I disagree with Dave
[06:09:43] PHB3 leaves the room
[06:11:05] <Sean Turner> okay so it's crazy saml stuff
[06:12:21] <PHB> MIC the original reason for having unprotected attributes in SAML was to put the proof chain there :)
[06:12:28] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Capability List from CMS (2)
[06:12:33] <PHB> it is not something you would need here at all
[06:12:44] <Sean Turner> geeze I hope that's true
[06:13:34] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Capability List from CMS (3)
[06:14:05] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 5: Discussion?
[06:14:10] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Capability List from CMS (2)
[06:14:14] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Capability List from CMS (3)
[06:14:22] <Linyi Tian> it is better to ask people to always use full name in jabber room
[06:14:34] Klaas Wierenga joins the room
[06:14:35] <Linyi Tian> then we will be easy to know those unknown entities:)
[06:14:58] <stpeter> Linyi Tian: we know who these people are, I'm just joking :)
[06:15:05] <Sean Turner> except where they're famous like ekr and phb ;)
[06:15:37] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 5: Discussion?
[06:15:45] <Linyi Tian> peter: yes. we need to consider a lot of new attendees:)
[06:16:13] <Linyi Tian> also western people's name is hard for asian people to remember.
[06:16:22] <Sean Turner> ;)
[06:16:28] <Linyi Tian> If i use ‘田林一” you will not be able to identify me anyway:)
[06:16:41] <Sean Turner> is that on your name tag ;)
[06:16:59] <Linyi Tian> not yet. i will try to have it next time.
[06:17:25] <Klaas Wierenga> i'll try to memorize
[06:18:02] <richard.barnes> mutually assured crypto destruction
[06:18:05] <Klaas Wierenga> your name starts with the Danish flag character ;-)
[06:18:14] <bkihara.l> this may be PRECIS matter :)
[06:18:22] tlodderstedt joins the room
[06:18:30] <Sean Turner> mwahahaha!
[06:18:33] <Linyi Tian> i will have "Linyi Tian (English) - 田林一(Simplified Chinese) - 田零壹(traditional Chinese) -- T01 (number)"
[06:18:53] <richard.barnes> we should all just be assigned QR codes
[06:18:55] <Klaas Wierenga> what's the T01 for?
[06:19:11] weiyinxing leaves the room
[06:19:30] <stpeter> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3279
[06:19:37] <Linyi Tian> T (family name, Tian), 零 means zeor, 一 means one
[06:19:48] =JeffH leaves the room
[06:20:27] =JeffH joins the room
[06:20:47] <PHB> mic integrity is not authenticity
[06:20:49] <Linyi Tian> { "family name":"T", "first name":"01"}, JOSE signed:)
[06:21:02] tlodderstedt leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[06:22:14] <PHB> +1 pete
[06:23:07] eludom joins the room
[06:23:18] Enrico Marocco leaves the room
[06:23:30] <Klaas Wierenga> ah, interesting Linyi Tian
[06:23:54] <Linyi Tian> i have a good story about my name
[06:24:12] <Linyi Tian> my dad expecting me to be in ietf when i was born
[06:24:36] <stpeter> any questions from the jabber room?
[06:24:55] <Klaas Wierenga> ;-)
[06:25:34] <Sean Turner> @Linyi you'll fit right in ;)
[06:26:49] <Linyi Tian> i would be happy to work with people on pure json representation (lightweight)
[06:27:04] <linuxwolf> same here
[06:27:16] <Sean Turner> best plan is to write a draft ;)
[06:27:58] <Linyi Tian> i plan to. i guess it would be good be adopted for using with coap in the future
[06:28:28] <linuxwolf> Linyi Tian: let's chat a little about that … I'm willing to help you
[06:28:40] <stpeter> I can introduce the two of you :)
[06:28:57] <Linyi Tian> that would be very nice, peter.
[06:29:19] <linuxwolf> /nod
[06:29:27] <Linyi Tian> hopefully i will be eaten by wolf:)
[06:29:41] <linuxwolf> heh
[06:29:49] <Sean Turner> depends if linuxwolf is hungry like a wolf
[06:32:12] <Linyi Tian> i believe integrity is also very important for the content
[06:32:50] <Linyi Tian> especially in the constrained environment, e.g. block transfer of coap payload
[06:33:09] semery leaves the room
[06:36:39] Paul Hoffman leaves the room
[06:38:43] mlepinski leaves the room
[06:38:48] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[06:39:00] richard.barnes leaves the room
[06:39:23] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[06:40:22] George Jones joins the room
[06:40:31] <Sean Turner> okay thank folks!
[06:40:43] =JeffH leaves the room
[06:40:56] semery joins the room
[06:40:57] <Simon Romano> See you all
[06:41:00] <Meetecho Scribe> bye
[06:41:01] Simon Romano leaves the room
[06:41:04] Ted Hardie leaves the room
[06:41:06] Kepeng leaves the room
[06:41:09] Sean Turner leaves the room
[06:41:14] PHB leaves the room
[06:41:21] linuxwolf leaves the room
[06:42:07] =JeffH joins the room
[06:42:13] =JeffH leaves the room
[06:42:19] semery leaves the room
[06:42:21] MeetechoAudio leaves the room
[06:42:34] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[06:43:21] ben leaves the room
[06:43:48] yoiwa leaves the room
[06:44:20] Meetecho Scribe leaves the room
[06:45:21] sftcd leaves the room
[06:46:07] shiomin leaves the room
[06:46:09] bkihara.l leaves the room
[06:47:37] mkatagi leaves the room
[06:48:39] George Jones leaves the room
[06:50:07] jimsch1 leaves the room
[06:50:32] Alex leaves the room
[06:51:11] eludom leaves the room
[06:51:54] rlbob joins the room
[06:52:37] cabo leaves the room
[06:52:59] clippy leaves the room
[06:53:05] Satoru Kanno leaves the room
[06:55:05] resnick leaves the room
[07:01:46] tandonghui leaves the room
[07:05:26] cabo joins the room
[07:07:12] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[07:09:14] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[07:11:02] Klaas Wierenga leaves the room
[07:11:37] cabo leaves the room
[07:14:07] lef_jp leaves the room
[07:16:29] Paul Hoffman joins the room
[07:16:42] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[07:21:31] lef_jp joins the room
[07:24:14] lef_jp leaves the room
[07:24:26] Linyi Tian leaves the room
[07:25:39] stpeter leaves the room
[07:27:28] cabo joins the room
[07:29:06] rlbob leaves the room
[07:29:30] Paul Hoffman leaves the room
[07:30:12] Paul Hoffman joins the room
[07:43:57] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[07:44:00] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[07:46:15] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[07:57:06] linuxwolf joins the room
[07:57:52] linuxwolf leaves the room
[08:01:04] linuxwolf joins the room
[08:01:27] linuxwolf leaves the room
[08:12:06] EKR2 leaves the room
[08:16:24] sakimura joins the room
[08:17:06] sakimura leaves the room
[08:18:01] Paul Hoffman leaves the room
[08:19:29] jimsch1 joins the room
[08:21:59] jimsch1 leaves the room
[08:23:38] cabo leaves the room
[08:31:07] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[08:36:07] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[08:36:39] Paul Hoffman joins the room
[08:37:01] Paul Hoffman leaves the room
[08:44:37] tonyhansen leaves the room
[09:05:45] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[09:36:05] kazubu leaves the room
[11:49:52] EKR leaves the room
[16:26:54] EKR joins the room
[19:17:04] EKR leaves the room