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[08:04:49] <apetrescu> slides at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=68 search for 'DYMO-09'
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[08:13:24] <Justin Dean> ipr reminder rfc 3979 https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/ipr_disclosure.cgi
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[08:14:33] <Justin Dean> Document Relationship slide showing relationship between current manet WG documents
[08:17:00] <Justin Dean> all documents have been updated since the last ietf and all are encouraged to review the updated documents
[08:19:04] <apetrescu> name is Satori something? (sorry mispelling)
[08:19:39] <Justin Dean> satoh
[08:20:26] * Justin Dean has changed the subject to: IANA Needs
[08:21:02] <apetrescu> Bill Fenner(?)
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[08:22:28] * Justin Dean has changed the subject to: packetbb
[08:23:04] <apetrescu> Thomas Clausen presents
[08:23:32] <Justin Dean> last call for for current 04 packetbb document?
[08:24:25] * Justin Dean has changed the subject to: NHDP
[08:24:34] <apetrescu> Christoph(er) Dearlove presents
[08:25:27] <Justin Dean> Can everyone hear Chris?
[08:26:08] <monden> yes I can
[08:30:17] <Justin Dean> Hopes to go last call before next meeting after another revision
[08:30:18] <apetrescu> satoh highitachi
[08:31:42] <Justin Dean> is hysterisis manditory? the answer is yes but there is text saying it doesn't need to be updated.
[08:34:15] <apetrescu> Joe Macker speaking
[08:35:43] * Justin Dean has changed the subject to: OLSRv2
[08:35:48] <apetrescu> Thomas Clausen presenting
[08:37:43] <apetrescu> Chris Dearlove commenting
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[08:40:36] <apetrescu> they argue about Acknowledging Charles Perkins in OLSRv2 document
[08:41:49] <apetrescu> name? Ace Lenop?
[08:42:25] <apetrescu> CD: DYMO and OLSRv2 are stdstrack not experimental
[08:42:26] <Justin Dean> ac lindem
[08:42:51] * Justin Dean has changed the subject to: SMF update
[08:50:55] <apetrescu> manet ospf prototype everybody could download from 'qualga'
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[08:53:13] <apetrescu> SMF is EXPERIMENTAL
[08:54:07] <apetrescu> SMF talks to ospf, olsr but doesn't use nhdp
[08:55:30] <Justin Dean> would like to clarify. The SMF implementation Joe is talking about talks with ospf and olsr but doesn't currently use nhdp
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[09:04:39] <apetrescu> what's sudoko?
[09:04:58] <apetrescu> sudo code?
[09:05:17] <Justin Dean> psuedo code
[09:05:27] <apetrescu> ah, thanks.
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[09:06:43] <apetrescu> Justin Dean is going to present
[09:07:09] <apetrescu> slide: nrlsmf update
[09:07:54] <apetrescu> slide: Overview
[09:09:03] <apetrescu> slide: The New "nrlsmf" Architecture
[09:10:11] <apetrescu> slide: "nrlsmf" Implementation
[09:10:23] <apetrescu> slide: Aside: ProtoPkt Classes
[09:10:27] <apetrescu> Iain Chakeres
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[09:10:37] <apetrescu> IC: if people want to look at slides they're on web
[09:10:39] <apetrescu> Joe MAcker
[09:11:04] <apetrescu> JM: Bryan included this, this may implementers out there who might start having packetbb classes, point of is to kind of review this on your own.
[09:11:23] <apetrescu> JM: there's a library class you can use to build a manet protocol. People implementers please review that.
[09:11:44] <apetrescu> JD: next slides have very specifici details on CLI and more. Main thing it supports...
[09:11:49] <apetrescu> slide: nrlsmf Functions
[09:12:17] <apetrescu> JM: something is supporting that so its missing.
[09:12:22] <apetrescu> JD: these are just examples
[09:12:38] <apetrescu> JD: is it previous-hop dependent, or non-previous hop dependent... two -hops away or something
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[09:13:52] <apetrescu> slide: SMF-DPD Header Option
[09:14:33] <apetrescu> slide: IPsec Duplicate Packet Detection
[09:14:58] <apetrescu> slide: The "smf" Command Set
[09:15:19] <apetrescu> JM: credits to Brian Haberman, went through IPsec, proved out its useful
[09:15:29] <apetrescu> slide: Future Additional Options
[09:16:34] <apetrescu> slide: Some IPv6 nrlsmf Issues
[09:17:13] <apetrescu> JM: this is implementer detail, it's user space prototype you have those problems, if you implement doing kernel you may not choose what we did, but if you choose this code here are the problems
[09:17:23] <apetrescu> slide: SMF Testing
[09:17:54] <apetrescu> slide: Future Work Items
[09:18:30] <apetrescu> JM: maybe we add I'm pretty sure, there are hooks for various simulators (ns2?) not sure opnet.
[09:18:42] <apetrescu> JM: if you want to simulate this you can
[09:19:09] <apetrescu> JD: manet message class not all the way implemented for ns-2, but a lot of code built on protocol-lib which is crossplatform allowing do win/linux/etc
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[09:24:10] <apetrescu> Justin Dean presenting
[09:24:17] <apetrescu> slide: Jitter considerations in MANETs
[09:24:43] <apetrescu> slide: Document Association
[09:25:24] <apetrescu> JM: why, maybe subcase, why dependency on SMF here?
[09:25:28] <apetrescu> JM: there can be
[09:25:32] <apetrescu> JD: can
[09:25:36] <apetrescu> JM: not essential dependency
[09:25:40] <apetrescu> Thomas Clausen
[09:25:52] <apetrescu> TC: most clear descrip of that its : this document may be useful for other documents
[09:26:02] <apetrescu> TC: other docs not potential dependency...
[09:26:10] <apetrescu> TC: these lines are not normative, just potential
[09:26:16] <apetrescu> slide: Jitter
[09:27:17] <apetrescu> JM: if you using SMF or smth that is time-driven then
[09:27:22] <apetrescu> JD: get on that later
[09:27:26] <apetrescu> JM: not clear but ok
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[09:28:04] <apetrescu> TC: we made a mistake in previous slide, it doesnt add delay, it tracks delay
[09:28:07] <apetrescu> JD: forwarding?
[09:28:13] <apetrescu> TC: forwarding yes, sorry
[09:28:26] <apetrescu> slide: Synchronized HELLO Issue without Jitter
[09:28:34] <apetrescu> JM: maybe you should say theres contention
[09:28:42] <apetrescu> JD: there's contention, may you not need jitter
[09:28:57] <apetrescu> slide: Jitter Introduced
[09:29:14] <apetrescu> slide: Forwarding without Jitter Issue, Simulated Example Network
[09:29:32] <apetrescu> JM: red block cant see
[09:29:38] <apetrescu> JD: not too important, just for the detail
[09:30:22] <apetrescu> slide: Packet Collisions
[09:30:32] <apetrescu> slide: Flooding Stops with Incomplete Coverage
[09:30:52] <apetrescu> JM: MAC layer model here has consistent carrier-detect with ocasional range?
[09:30:55] <apetrescu> JD: no
[09:31:03] <apetrescu> JM: not 802.11 then, because 82.11 better
[09:31:09] <apetrescu> JD: short carrier detection
[09:31:16] <apetrescu> JM: agrees short carrier detection
[09:31:21] <apetrescu> slide: forwarding jitter intro
[09:31:35] <apetrescu> CD: although this is not 802.11 you still see these problems with 802.11 right
[09:31:43] <apetrescu> JM: definetely in simulation
[09:31:48] <apetrescu> slide: Document Satus?
[09:32:19] <apetrescu> JM: we'd like to take a poll
[09:32:24] <apetrescu> JM: should it be wg doc
[09:32:32] <apetrescu> JM: with the caveat I see this is informational
[09:32:45] <apetrescu> JM: maybe nice to understand to understand, or have a way to discuss it, not specify
[09:32:53] <apetrescu> JM: raise hands if they dont like it
[09:32:55] <apetrescu> Charles PErkins
[09:33:03] <apetrescu> CP: isnt it early for acceptance as WG doc?
[09:33:12] <apetrescu> JM: not support, polling
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[09:33:32] <apetrescu> IC: this text is already been as wg doc for a long time, this is ...
[09:33:43] <apetrescu> IC: portion useful for certain mac layers
[09:33:46] <apetrescu> CD: version 01...
[09:33:55] <apetrescu> CD: people havent have the opportunity to read
[09:34:02] <apetrescu> JM: its pulled out of other docs.
[09:34:09] <apetrescu> JM: poll this out more than..
[09:34:19] <apetrescu> JM: people disagree with this right now strongly?
[09:34:33] <apetrescu> JM: the idea of having a common jitter information. This means its not a non-spec anymore
[09:34:43] <apetrescu> TC: wonderful thing, we include same xml text in ...
[09:35:00] <apetrescu> TC: what that means, there's too much in all these documents, the text is as it is in the document
[09:35:06] <apetrescu> TC: intent is to remove...
[09:35:13] <apetrescu> TC: nhdp too, remove in 10s
[09:35:20] <apetrescu> JM: intention is not to have in two places
[09:35:32] <apetrescu> JM: presently it is, because its not a wg document
[09:35:36] <apetrescu> JM: anybody hating this?
[09:35:42] <apetrescu> JM: not a strong oppinion about it.
[09:35:51] <apetrescu> JM: before anything happens we certainly have to ask the list
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[09:36:13] <apetrescu> TC: as a co-authors, I want to verify to Chairs intend to ask the list, timescale, make a decision either way
[09:36:22] <apetrescu> CD: not intend to issue nhdp until..
[09:36:44] <apetrescu> JM: could do that imemdiately, but authors could write a sentence of intention, group needs to hear understand philosophy of it
[09:36:53] <apetrescu> JM: if we write that up we should write the rationale
[09:37:02] <apetrescu> JM: we could put that in the next week or so
[09:37:39] <apetrescu> JM: carry-out of that, Thomas, before you present, still looks contention to me how you draw the SMF dottel line, discussion that appreciated.
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[09:37:59] <apetrescu> TC: that dottel ine was drawn by Bryan Adamson who thought so, we should discuss that with authros
[09:38:16] <apetrescu> JM: strong need or "maybe" use it? distinguish between these deps, bryan thinks could be useful
[09:38:22] <apetrescu> TC: now I regret this doc
[09:38:33] <apetrescu> JM: as far as jitter goes, we need to distinguish that make it clear to WG
[09:38:43] <apetrescu> JM: if dotted line and all equal, not all equal importance
[09:38:52] <apetrescu> TC: important is to talk to each other how he wants this
[09:38:58] <apetrescu> TC: we agree there cant be a relationship
[09:39:07] <apetrescu> TC: there can or cant (I dont understand)
[09:39:10] <apetrescu> JM: not...
[09:39:20] <apetrescu> TC: there's a consideration which might apply to ...
[09:39:26] <apetrescu> TC: for all of it it's such a ...
[09:39:30] <apetrescu> TC: therefore...
[09:39:33] <apetrescu> JM: MAC layers is
[09:39:41] <apetrescu> TC: not that was just to take an example.
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[09:39:52] <apetrescu> JM: is SMF an application of it? a whole diffserv happening on it
[09:40:02] <apetrescu> JM: this may not have a control plane to happen over it
[09:40:15] <apetrescu> JM: kind of fuzzy; but ok we'll solve the problem, certainly potentially useful
[09:40:24] <apetrescu> TC: that was the intent, to show potentially useful.
[09:40:30] <apetrescu> Thomas Clause presents
[09:40:39] <apetrescu> slide: Representing Multi-Value Time in MANETs
[09:41:22] <apetrescu> slide: Specifies...
[09:42:11] <apetrescu> slide: Time Structure
[09:42:53] <apetrescu> slide: TLV Structure
[09:43:14] <apetrescu> slide: What's it used for?
[09:46:26] <apetrescu> slide: Why a Separate I-D?
[09:47:10] <apetrescu> TC: would like to know what WG thinks about that
[09:47:16] <apetrescu> JM: big a fan he is about this
[09:47:27] <apetrescu> JM: cause you gonna have to define tlvs
[09:47:37] <apetrescu> JM: we have extensible messages now, you should do tlv messages
[09:47:48] <apetrescu> JM: fisheye and fuzzyset...
[09:47:57] <apetrescu> JM: slowdown time for these nodes and various ndoes
[09:48:12] <apetrescu> JM: not just distance based but also destination based, and he's a fan of it.
[09:48:23] <apetrescu> TC: read any version of olsrv2?
[09:48:27] <apetrescu> JM: yes
[09:48:38] <apetrescu> IC: please read the document and comment on it.
[09:48:46] <apetrescu> TC: sounds good
[09:48:51] <apetrescu> IC: do you have slide about that?
[09:48:54] <apetrescu> TC: yes.
[09:49:02] <apetrescu> JM: one q
[09:49:22] <apetrescu> JM: beyiond WG doc, strategy was to get this rfc before nhdp, or are you sort of like endeavour on that case?
[09:49:28] <apetrescu> JM: priority item?
[09:49:42] <apetrescu> TC: if we dont stabilize dthose docs then its going to stabilize
[09:49:47] <apetrescu> JM: because you have to remove text?
[09:49:55] <apetrescu> TC: if jitter and ... not completely yet ...
[09:50:06] <apetrescu> TC: we might need to make a change here, id like see this forward
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