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[19:12:28] <ggm> Host is being mein host
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[19:17:42] <ggm> reporting on the shownet. dsicussing how they debugged it.
[19:18:08] <ggm> stats.
[19:18:16] <ggm> peak b/w was 63mbit, peak download 35mbits
[19:18:29] <ggm> peak upload download 6, upload 2 mbits
[19:18:36] <ggm> (for ipv6)
[19:18:47] <ggm> wireless peak throughput, 63mbit/sec, 780 clients associated
[19:18:57] <ggm> co sponsors get their badges on the ppt
[19:19:04] <ggm> symantec, telus, bc.net
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[19:21:27] <bensons> conclusion: you would, in fact, be insane to host ietf...
[19:21:32] <ggm> now on to the meat in the sandwich
[19:21:38] <ggm> IASA report
[19:22:01] <ggm> Ray Pelletier
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[19:23:01] <ggm> Foretec being acquired by Neustar. service agreement under negotiation
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[19:25:13] <ggm> Budget is 3.75mil. 2.3 is meeting revenue, ISOC cover 1.45. meeting fees will rise to $550
[19:25:36] <ggm> expenses breakdown. not going to type here.
[19:26:01] <ggm> FY6 budget is 3.23mil
[19:26:20] <ggm> includes a 200k spend on special projects, proof-of-concept stuff
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[19:27:34] <ggm> more detail on admin expenses . noting cc fees, wasn't in budget before, because cc used to be done direct to vendor (foretec) now coming direct, so have to pay merchant costs
[19:27:42] <ggm> (credit card)
[19:27:53] <ggm> ISOC support significant, tripled from 2002.
[19:28:17] <ggm> fee support graph. fairly static for 3 years.
[19:28:51] <ggm> next steps
[19:29:03] <bensons> http://www.isoc.org/members/
[19:29:07] <ggm> RFP for rfc-ed and secretariat will be put to RFP
[19:29:21] <ggm> meeting venues, 65 is dallas, 66-70 under review.
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[19:30:48] <ggm> tools being worked on
[19:31:48] <ggm> overseeing execution of agreements with vendors: RFC ed, IANA, Secretariat
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[19:33:53] <ggm> RFC -ED report
[19:34:00] <ggm> Joyce to the mike
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[19:34:39] <ggm> AARON: why future meetings so secret? can't we at least know the continent? we are adults, know its not binding
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[19:34:57] <ggm> Ray: next summer Nth america, fall could be europe, or somewhere else. some interesting offers
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[19:35:24] <ggm> (I think Afalk thinks this answer missed the point)
[19:35:27] <ggm> Joyce
[19:35:41] <ggm> 105 docs published since last IETF.
[19:35:48] <ggm> so the trend is up
[19:36:00] <ggm> 97 IETF, 2 independent submissions
[19:36:10] <ggm> queue breakdowns slide
[19:36:27] <ggm> rfc-eds main concern is how many in author-48 state
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[19:38:23] <ggm> changes/experiments discussed at techspec bof
[19:38:35] <ggm> working on normative reference problems
[19:39:47] <ggm> new state: MISSREF. queue docs until all normative refs are submitted
[19:39:53] <ggm> (up to 11 docrefs)
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[19:42:49] <ggm> gui error. sorry.
[19:42:55] <ggm> IANA update. Barbara Roseman
[19:43:40] <ggm> DRC now on board.
[19:43:43] <ggm> IANA now 7 staff.
[19:44:05] <ggm> opening positons when skills identified
[19:44:52] <ggm> draft process; 6mo, all done in lest than 30days, unless put on hold or extended auth state
[19:45:02] <ggm> port requests harder to handle in regular fashion
[19:45:45] <ggm> PEN requests, getting down to 2 day max delay
[19:45:55] <ggm> 100 misc parameter requests in October
[19:48:38] <ggm> IAOC. Sue Lynch
[19:48:56] <ggm> list of IAOC membership
[19:48:58] <ggm> like Paris
[19:49:03] <BrettThorson> Lucy Lynch
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[19:50:20] <ggm> Discussing BCP101
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[19:51:28] <ggm> recent activity, on contracts, budgets, licences
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[19:53:54] <ggm> Trust structure issues
[19:54:13] <ggm> this is all detailed stuff which I think you should get direct from the source
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[19:57:38] <BrettThorson> What jabber screen is he referring to?
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[19:57:59] <ggm> I have NFI.
[19:58:02] <ggm> Brian .
[19:58:08] <ggm> 1291 registered attendees. down from DC
[19:58:23] <ggm> 40 countries
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[19:59:29] <ggm> almost 50% uS
[19:59:36] --- Tom Phelan has joined
[20:00:00] <ggm> Greater China is now significant.first time showing in piechart
[20:00:27] <ggm> Japan 2nd largest, then CA
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[20:01:19] <Ed J.> DC had 1309 attendees
[20:01:29] <ggm> doc actions. 66% in last 4 weeks to new ID, 71% in last 4 weeks to updated I-D
[20:01:35] <ggm> numbers down a bit, compared to before.
[20:01:37] <Ed J.> Brian wants to know who the 18 people are, who did not come to Vancouver
[20:01:44] <Ed J.> but did go to Washington
[20:01:55] <Ed J.> :-)
[20:02:02] <BrettThorson> I'm one. Then again, I am 10 miles away from DC :-)
[20:02:04] <ggm> annual approvals rate for IDs 340, less to RFC because of issues noted by Joyce
[20:02:21] <ggm> appeal rate up 400%. but 400% of tiny is still tiny
[20:02:27] <ggm> worrying trend
[20:02:31] <ggm> (not joking now)
[20:02:39] <ggm> disputes complex and expensive to handle
[20:02:49] <ggm> future meetings
[20:02:54] <ggm> nokia sponsor dallas
[20:03:22] <Ed J.> March 19-24
[20:03:38] <Ed J.> Summer meeting dates are fixed: July 9 - 14
[20:03:44] <Ed J.> location stilll TBD
[20:03:45] <ggm> getting them settled to be able to ink an agreement/contract is tricky. have slipped back
[20:03:57] <ggm> can't say much more
[20:04:03] <ggm> IESG internals
[20:06:21] <ggm> tools going to be reported later. projects page http://unreason.com/jfp/iesg-projects.html but not being updated much
[20:06:21] <ggm> PESCI
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[20:07:06] <ggm> some saw as a bit arbitrary but not bypassing process. BoF today.
[20:07:07] <BrettThorson> Fish
[20:08:14] <ggm> Cerf/Kahn get Prez medal of freedom
[20:09:01] <ggm> [applause]
[20:09:27] <ggm> PROTO team report
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[20:11:00] <BrettThorson> who is talking?
[20:11:12] <Bill> Allison Mankin
[20:11:31] <BrettThorson> Thanks
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[20:14:31] <ggm> (sorry, can't jabber for a bit)
[20:14:31] <ggm> the net is flapping for me.
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[20:21:46] <ggm> Ralph does NomCom. list on slide. hassle them. self nominations welcome, dont be shy
[20:21:54] <ggm> look for the orange dot
[20:21:59] <ggm> (to winge at nomcom)
[20:23:18] <bhoeneis> Are the slides of the plenary somewhere available?
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[20:23:51] <ggm> sure. on BCs laptop [bwaah ha ha ha ha ha] actually, good Q.
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[20:24:33] <BrettThorson> http://onsite.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/slides/plenaryw-0.pdf
[20:24:35] <ggm> IESG to podium
[20:24:55] <deng> bow
[20:24:55] <ggm> expect Q on operational/admin/process, but do not exclude tech
[20:25:25] <ggm> the floor is now polishing its wooden swords and shields.. rotten tomato's being hoisted...
[20:25:36] <ggm> Fred at the mike
[20:25:49] <ggm> praising NomCom.
[20:26:29] <ggm> special badge for people who should talk to nomcom: people with white dots
[20:26:49] <ggm> sam weiler to the mike
[20:27:02] <ggm> RFC ed independent submit review process.
[20:27:23] <ggm> DNS attempting threshold for accept/retain in WG. some work of some merit may get bounced. some should get published with less community review.
[20:28:03] <ggm> maybe bypass IESG review. RFC-ED independent submit. but from numbers, slow, anecdotally not moving at all. can we get RFC-Q working for that process? or another archival means for publication if wg wants to bounce?
[20:28:18] <ggm> Brian reminded me to introduce people
[20:28:31] <ggm> Russ mundy off the edge of the podium like a dwarf on the side
[20:29:11] <ggm> [doing intros]
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[20:29:47] <ggm> Fred: Bob Braden
[20:29:49] <ggm> Bob:
[20:30:10] <ggm> answer is, 'feel your pain' -policy, long policy, agreed between rfc-ed & IETF that they IETF, stds take precedence
[20:30:14] <ggm> backlog
[20:30:26] <ggm> reducing backlog. not doing anything else
[20:30:53] <ggm> Mike wars.
[20:30:59] <ggm> BC calling for A-V help
[20:31:16] <ggm> [Routing problem]
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[20:31:57] <ggm> [unnamed person] work which comes to WG, doesnt meet threshold, so goes indiv. informational? or p-s or ??
[20:32:02] <ggm> Sam not stds, info or exp
[20:32:19] <ggm> Kessins. Ad responsible for DNS.
[20:32:30] <ggm> have a lot of docs, gone into IETF, nice concepts, don't get review. not enough volunteers.
[20:32:35] <ggm> documents are difficult to handle
[20:32:41] <ggm> know interesting, want published, but not reviewed
[20:33:10] <ggm> Sam. issue here is, low impedence pub, for bounces, either lower threshold agaaain (dont want) publish outside (dont want) or need this.
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[20:33:16] <ggm> want ISR working
[20:33:28] <ggm> [another unknown person]
[20:33:47] <ggm> ISR process. rfc-ed says to IESG review? to WG in domain review? WG gets document back. [layughter]
[20:34:04] <ggm> so it comes back. can't work even if Q unplugged
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[20:35:06] <ggm> AD says: if seen before, doesn't break things, IESG says fine, will eventually publish
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[20:35:17] <ggm> DaveCrocker
[20:35:38] <ggm> not doing detailed work to RFC-ed for some years. rudely awakened to the details. thought RFC-ed doing good job. found errors
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[20:35:52] <ggm> no complaint. its a delight. then hear about Q
[20:36:19] <ggm> doing good job, but problem with Q. perhaps we don't need all that being done: stds track need Q we need. other docs don't clearly need this
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[20:36:39] <ggm> RobA. comments. to mikes comments, yes doc will come back to WG if take path. but having sheparded one, takes three loops.
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[20:38:02] <ggm> loop optimize woul dbe good
[20:38:12] <ggm> Fred tosses to PROTO. Alison seems ok.
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[20:39:39] <ggm> Allison comment. orthogonal to bounce back and forth., in transport area, somebody , views themselves as maintaining a proto, have responsibility for proto, nice idea but not 'core' -WG decides not to adopt. develop somewhere else. ..
[20:39:58] <ggm> maybe no is reasonable. going elsewhere is the right thing
[20:40:30] <ggm> Marg. new issue
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[20:40:38] <ggm> to lucy, to brian, other IAOC
[20:40:50] <ggm> started year ago.
[20:41:04] <ggm> fully up last march. been very disappointed in level of transparency/openness
[20:41:28] <ggm> months of negotiations. community know very little. only saw trust agreement after details. some provided fb, feeling fb is too late. reached agreements.
[20:41:44] <ggm> not happy didn't see earlier budget before presented to ISOC board. how to improve this. don't want to say next year
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[20:41:55] <ggm> lucy did publish minutes.
[20:42:08] <ggm> trust specialized case. 3 sided agreement, not as easy to share as internal process
[20:42:22] <ggm> coming year, regular monthly/qtrly reports
[20:42:41] <ggm> if have additional suggestions want to see, dont impinge on confidentiality (3rd party contracts) no problem personally.
[20:42:50] <ggm> but not always at liberty to disclose
[20:42:56] <ggm> BC
[20:43:19] <ggm> fundamentally, in your position I would feel the same way. but we've been working under tricky constraints in startip phase, not how I want it to continue
[20:43:35] <ggm> always stuff BCP101 says we have to respect confidentiality, constrained. for few months.
[20:43:41] <ggm> had to, to make progress.
[20:43:49] <ggm> IAOC can confirm I have been concerned
[20:44:02] <ggm> but need to be clearer
[20:44:18] <ggm> Fred. Q place for minutes? Lucy speaks but I cannot tell URL. sorry.
[20:44:31] <ggm> [I missed the URL]
[20:44:37] <bensons> http://koi.uoregon.edu/~iaoc/
[20:44:40] <ggm> [ta]
[20:44:50] <ggm> minutes up, to October
[20:45:02] <ggm> every meeting is noted, if not minuted (some are in confidence)
[20:45:27] <ggm> Marg. disagree been exposing as much as you can. would not trash terms of trust, to tell community reached agreement to consider one.
[20:45:37] <ggm> Lucy said in Paris
[20:45:53] <ggm> Marg but didn't know until months after started, included too late. end report on whats decided. no tinvolved in decision
[20:46:11] <ggm> Lucy understand. given parties ..
[20:46:17] <ggm> mArg we are a party to this. I object
[20:46:31] <ggm> Constrained to not even say was being considered?
[20:46:38] <ggm> Lucy think was in the minutes.
[20:46:44] <ggm> BC we'd have to grep to be sure.
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[20:47:40] <ggm> Leslie Daigle. IAB ex-officio on IAOC. not confidend marg won't be just as unhappy. can take note there is unhappyness about exposure. not just IAOC has to get used to job, also community needs to get used to level of extra detail now getting, compared to before 12mo or 2y ago
[20:48:12] <ggm> judgement calls made, within IAOC, best for IETF to expose details of negotiations as move along, not clear to me these were completely constrains so much as judhement choices. need to work out. will revisit
[20:48:42] <ggm> David.K. conuter-view to marg. happy with transparency. realize org is just starting, has to deal with legal agreements, have to be real. docs that allows to make agreements, just doing job
[20:49:51] <ggm> Kurtis. IESG appt to IASA. long discussion. lot of considerations. hard decisions. always be a level of give and take
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[20:50:26] <ggm> Lucy. three major decisions. hired, worked on trust, negotiate with newstar. all three exposed in some degree as happened. some have constraints. large candidates, 3 interviews, came to conclusion, and issue report
[20:50:53] <ggm> for sake of candidates not hired, could not expose. 3 party negotiate on trust, had constraints, neustar much more open, will be more open as we go forward. has to do with other third parties
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[20:51:24] <ggm> ?Mike? dont believe doc of substance which hasn't mentiond trust at some level. every real meeting has been documented at some level
[20:51:31] <ggm> JohnK
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[20:51:41] <BrettThorson> Reading between the lines. Heh he.
[20:51:42] <ggm> critical of openness, thnkn have to give them a break
[20:52:10] <ggm> move forward admin details without dragging entire community/IAB/IESG into every process. need to let that work. subtle balance
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[20:53:06] <ggm> spent time year ago, discussing. when looked like we had situation IAOC might approve trust, without consultation and approve, I took object. they did last call it, call for consensus. for us to expect them to expose negotiation, pvte stuff, is situation if we insist, may as well give up IASA and run process with voting. will not work
[20:53:22] <ggm> difficult lines to draw. need to work with IAOC, criticise, get lines drawn correctly, but be sensible.
[20:53:33] <BrettThorson> who is at the Mic?
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[20:54:01] <ggm> That was John Klensin
[20:54:06] <ggm> Bert Wijnen just spoke
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[20:54:32] <ggm> Marg: 2 Q. if as result of last call, community has consensus trust should change, can we change it? Q2 will we see the sla terms, with neustar before executed?
[20:54:56] <ggm> Lucy first Q, asking for up or down agreement on trust agreement, if not supported walk away and start again
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[20:55:41] <ggm> Jordi Palet share Marg concerns. not this speciifc one, in general. if open commuity, open consensus need no secrets. lot of secrets. how chairs selected. expressed several times over years. either we change that, or change formulation of open.
[20:55:47] <ggm> venue selection issue.
[20:56:12] <ggm> intent was done openly. but got pointed 'could not be done that way' -if cannot be open, then change statements
[20:56:51] <ggm> DavidK. nokia will be sponsor of next IETF. reality is, have to deal with hotel, might not match what you want, thats whats available. location may not be entrirely ok. have to be real here, cannot have 2000 people on table to make venue selection.
[20:57:06] <ggm> Jordi not asking for 2000 people, either open, or change statements about openness
[20:57:31] <ggm> Alex zinin. IETF secrets. do not agree with this statement. our documents for wg chair appt process. well documented its ADs do it.
[20:57:54] <ggm> want to change that, there is process to change 2042. other specific examples of secrets bring them on, lets discuss them. not gneral statemenst
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[20:58:29] <ggm> [anyone here who can help me find feedback path to joel jaggli or the A-V people?]
[20:58:45] <ggm> [received comments the audio spikes noise which is painful on earphones]
[20:59:07] <ggm> Dave Crocker.
[20:59:18] <ggm> getting tired get up, hving JohnK say what I wanted to say
[20:59:47] <ggm> [steve crocker applauds offer by Doug to sit down]
[21:00:15] <ggm> cmplaints here, frequently definition of open, different expectations of terms. each one is reasonable, they are disparate
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[21:01:23] <ggm> suggestion is, cultural change. we require, as culture point, anyone that gets up to complain about process must have specific complaint about output and get some support. ie output error needs user support. no abstract complaints.
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[21:01:45] <ggm> [unknown] IASA was becaiuse of unhappyness of opennes we had. transition. but miracles don't happen overnight
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[21:01:59] <ggm> suspend judgement until some more progress, see result then judge
[21:02:01] <david_partain> bernard aboba...
[21:02:14] <ggm> na, he's lost a lot of weight if that is aboba
[21:02:22] <ggm> leslie
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[21:02:54] <ggm> followup marg Q. want to make point. in favour of opennes, community input,
[21:03:02] <ggm> to do serious review of trust doc, need all context.
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[21:04:46] <ggm> (sorry can't do the writing for a bit)
[21:04:50] <ggm> JohnK is at mike
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[21:05:45] <ggm> RobaA follw to john. BCP101 author
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[21:12:08] <Bill> Hans the audio guy adjusted the levels a bit ago (I wasn't watching the window when he said it) - [19:02:47] <h> is that better?
[21:12:33] <ggm> the feedback I have thus far is "yes" but he's waiting for a bit longer before saying "definitely yes"
[21:12:55] <ggm> (its not me, I am in the room. its somebody in Brissie)
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[21:14:08] <Bill> ok
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[21:16:01] <ggm> BC. bandwidth IAB/IESG is 4 people.
[21:16:06] <ggm> need more
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[21:16:39] <ggm> TedHardie
[21:16:52] <ggm> AD always asked for charter/recharter. and the public
[21:17:08] <ggm> rarely get feedback. important to remind community. need comments
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[21:20:54] <ggm> Keith Moore. not enough attention to arch iissues in deciding what gets done. volunteers do what they want to do. problem
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[21:21:05] <ggm> ignore very imp. isues, significant impact on internet
[21:21:34] <ggm> Fred need path to get there
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