IETF
plenary
plenary@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 29, 2013< ^ >
mrex-ietf has set the subject to: Plenary @ IETF86 , audio stream: http://ietf86streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf866.m3u,  Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf86/tech_plenary
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[15:45:45] <Tobia Castaldi> hi all
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[15:45:55] <Michael Richardson> no audio hooked up yet, I think.
[15:46:16] <moderator> It's arriving...
[15:46:17] <Jack Moffitt> http://ietf87streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf874.m3u
[15:46:24] <danyork> they are still working on the audio
[15:46:36] <Michael Richardson> hmm. well. someone fix the URL in the title.
[15:46:38] <danyork> "they" being the hotel A/V people
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[15:46:58] Jack Moffitt has set the subject to: Plenary @ IETF87, audio stream: http://ietf87streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf874.m3u, Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf87/tech_plenary/
[15:47:24] <Michael Richardson> works now from direct stream. still waiting for meetecho.
[15:48:00] <Michael Richardson> so, "check 1.2." is the proper german for doing mic tests?
[15:48:11] <moderator> It is up now.
[15:48:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Michael audio on Meetecho WebLite (classic interface) should we up now
[15:48:25] <moderator> But the A7V people have momentarly muted all mics
[15:48:47] <SM> Is meetecho up?
[15:48:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> yup
[15:48:55] <amirante> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[15:48:55] <moderator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[15:48:55] <administrator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
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[15:49:15] <SM> It shows link not activated
[15:49:59] <SM> Ah, works now
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[15:50:09] <Tobia Castaldi> ok... it's active now
[15:50:12] <Tobia Castaldi> :)
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[15:50:29] <amirante> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[15:50:29] <moderator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[15:50:29] <administrator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
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[15:52:53] <danyork> For remote participants, you can also watch a live video stream at https://new.livestream.com/internetsociety/ietf87techplenary
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[15:53:32] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 2: IAB Membership Update
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[15:53:37] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: Liaison Manager Changes
[15:53:43] Victor Zhong Xin joins the room
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[15:55:48] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: Highlights Since IETF 87
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[15:56:44] Andrew Feren joins the room
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[15:57:13] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: RFCs Published in the IAB Stream
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[15:57:26] <danyork> Remote participants can use the Opus codec if you connect to http://www.meetecho.com/ietf87/tech_plenary using a WebRTC-capable browser
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[15:57:46] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 6: Document Status
[15:57:47] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 6: Document Status
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[15:57:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 7: Standards Process  Oversight and App
[15:58:09] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 8: Ongoing Appointments
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[15:58:41] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 9: Upcoming IAB Workshop
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[15:59:26] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 10: IAB PROGRAM REPORTS
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[16:00:08] <Tobia Castaldi> Presentation stopped
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[16:00:15] <amirante> New presentation: 04_IrtfReport.pdf
[16:00:16] <moderator> New presentation: 04_IrtfReport.pdf
[16:00:16] <administrator> New presentation: 04_IrtfReport.pdf
[16:00:18] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 1: IRTF Open Meeting
[16:00:20] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 2: IRTF Meetings This Week
[16:00:26] Victor Zhong Xin leaves the room
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[16:00:35] <joel jaeggli> there was a long lag between wehn I joined the meetecho and when the stream became available
[16:00:39] <joel jaeggli> fwiw
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[16:00:47] <Tobia Castaldi> Current presenter: Lars Eggert
[16:00:48] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 2: IRTF Meetings This Week
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[16:01:00] <anorton_4466> the expermintal WebRTC link doesn't seem to work
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[16:01:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Joel do you mean there's a lag in the stream or only in the time it took to display?
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[16:01:15] <Andrew Feren> joel, good to know.  I thought that was just me.
[16:01:16] <joelja> yeah I had to use the mini client
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[16:01:32] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: Research Group Status
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[16:01:45] <joelja> once the client came up it was about two minutes before the flash links became active
[16:01:47] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: IRTF Open Meeting Agenda Tuesday, 9:00
[16:01:59] Juegen Totzke leaves the room
[16:02:01] <joelja> webrtc didn't work for me
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[16:02:20] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: Research Group Status
[16:02:27] <joelja> chrome version 28 something
[16:02:44] <Lorenzo Miniero> weird, that's definitely supported
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[16:02:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: IRTF Stream RFC Publications
[16:03:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> if the gui took some time to complete it may also be an issue with the jabber server
[16:03:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> before rendering, the gui waits for the client to join the jabber room
[16:03:14] <Andrew Feren> I'm using chrome 26 ish and had the same experience
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[16:03:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> sometimes it doesn't start right away
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[16:03:50] <JcK> Yes, I gave up on Meetecho after waiting what seemed like quite a while even after switching to the mini client and giving up on webrtc.  Now I'm noticing that the ISOC video feed is associated with very low volume (can't hear Lars even with my speakers turned all the way up).
[16:03:50] lkjkljw leaves the room
[16:03:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Presentation stopped
[16:04:05] John leaves the room
[16:04:12] <amirante> New presentation: 05_RseAndRsocChairReport.pdf
[16:04:12] <moderator> New presentation: 05_RseAndRsocChairReport.pdf
[16:04:12] <administrator> New presentation: 05_RseAndRsocChairReport.pdf
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[16:04:24] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 2: RFC Format
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[16:06:07] <joelja> yeah my webrtc video isn't starting
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[16:06:22] <SM> Tobia, are the pauses in the video and audio due to buffering issues?
[16:06:39] <Tobia Castaldi> are you using the flash player?
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[16:06:44] <SM> Yes
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[16:07:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> SM the stream should be fine there
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[16:07:44] <Lorenzo Miniero> Joel I see a 15ish people on the new interface, so I guess it might be a weird issue related to your setup
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[16:07:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> if you want we can look nto it together after the plenary
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[16:08:27] <Tobia Castaldi> SM... I've just checked and the flash streams seems to work fine
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[16:08:38] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: RSE Avenues of Communication
[16:08:42] <joelja> finally it started after the note well popup came up
[16:08:42] <SM> Thanks, don't worry about it as I can follow
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[16:08:56] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: RFC Series Oversight Committee (RSOC )
[16:08:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> halleluyah :)
[16:09:00] <joelja> that was around 4ish minutes
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[16:10:01] <JcK> Running rapidly toward the stage :-)
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[16:10:34] <JcK> Hmm.  Large pond in the way. :-(
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[16:10:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Presentation stopped
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[16:11:20] <moderator> New presentation: 06_OpusTechPlenaryTalks.pdf
[16:11:20] <amirante> New presentation: 06_OpusTechPlenaryTalks.pdf
[16:11:21] <administrator> New presentation: 06_OpusTechPlenaryTalks.pdf
[16:11:28] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 1: The Opus Codec
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[16:11:48] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 2: Outline
[16:11:51] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: IETF Remote Participation
[16:12:19] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: Opus Experiment (Live Now!)
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[16:12:34] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: Outline
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[16:12:48] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 6: What is Opus?
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[16:13:24] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 7: Why a New Audio Codec?
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[16:13:41] <SM> Strange, you are on slide 7 and teh video shows the talk starting now
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[16:14:14] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 8: Why a New Audio Codec?
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[16:14:25] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 9: Two types of audio codecs
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[16:14:58] <Michael Richardson Too> I would like if I could push a button and instead of a screen scrap of the slides, I could get the HTML conversion of them, so I can click on the links...
[16:14:59] Randy Bush joins the room
[16:15:06] <Michael Richardson Too> (and the fonts would be anti-aliased)
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[16:15:19] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 10: Applications and Standards (2010)
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[16:15:29] <Michael Richardson Too> opus was definitely loss while Russ and Lars were speaking.
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[16:16:17] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 11: Applications and Standards (2013)
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[16:16:19] <moderator> Michael, you're  remote, or you're here in the room?
[16:16:27] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 12: Specifications
[16:16:48] <Michael Richardson Too> moderator: remote.
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[16:17:06] <Michael Richardson Too> it also just garbled when he was talking about network music.
[16:17:09] <moderator> @michael: how's audio now?
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[16:17:16] <mjgraves> I'm not seeing any audio media via WebRTC at my location
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[16:17:35] <Michael Richardson Too> (I am on R&E network. RISQ/Canarie, but with tunnelled IPv6, alas)
[16:17:46] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 13: Implementation
[16:17:48] <moderator> Wow!
[16:17:55] <Michael Richardson Too> the audio has been fine, except for those three times.
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[16:18:31] <moderator> We can have some spikes, but overall the quality seems really ok, IMO
[16:18:36] <SM> Meetecho does not use IPv6
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[16:18:39] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 14: Optimized for the Internet?
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[16:18:57] <moderator> @SM: meetecho 'can' do IPv6
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[16:19:34] <danyork> FYI, audio is now up on the ISOC video livestream - the issues getting the house audio connected to the streaming app have been fixed.
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[16:19:43] <joelja> so is the playout around 1 second right now?
[16:19:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 15: How it Works
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[16:20:43] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 16: Adoption
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[16:21:37] <danyork> joelja - if you are asking about the iSOC livestream, there is about a 30+ second lag in the stream from what is happening on stage
[16:21:52] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 17: Outline
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[16:22:46] <Michael Richardson Too> 30s?  
[16:22:47] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 18: Testing Opus
[16:22:56] <Michael Richardson Too> so the ISOC livestream is in Virginia? Or another room there?
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[16:24:37] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 19: Subjective results
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[16:26:39] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 20: Google results
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[16:26:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 21: HydrogenAudio results
[16:28:05] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 22: Why we need more than formal listening t
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[16:29:08] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 23: Operational Testing
[16:29:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 24: Objective Quality Testing
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[16:31:03] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 25: The Opus spec is executable…
[16:31:18] <Michael Richardson Too> audio just dropped.
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[16:31:23] <Michael Richardson Too> and came back.
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[16:31:52] <Michael Richardson Too> I didn't see any drop in the video.
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[16:32:04] <moderator> Opus was able to recover, so!
[16:32:31] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 26: Outline
[16:32:39] <moderator> I'm streaming video from a laptop in the first row, for which I asked a wired connection :-)
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[16:32:45] <moderator> Kudos to the NOC guys...
[16:32:56] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 27: “Storming” (IETF 75, Stockholm)
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[16:33:20] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 28: “Forming” (IETF 76, Hiroshima)
[16:33:29] <JcK> @Michael: As far as I can tell, we've got at least four different audio feeds: the traditional one, Meetecho old mode, Meetecho WebRTC/Opus mode,, and the ISOC video and its audio.  If something stops working, it would be helpful, I think, to know which one(s).
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[16:33:47] <moderator> +1 !
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[16:34:10] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 29: “Norming”
[16:34:32] <Michael Richardson Too> JcK, I'm on the webRTC one.  What is the ISOC one?
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[16:34:38] <danyork> Meetecho team - I'm not getting audio in the WebRTC connection I have.  I have a line through what I think is the speaker icon. Any suggestions as to how to troubleshoot?
[16:34:45] <moderator> BTW, Meetecho old mode means RTSP, Flash, Opus, PSTN, Java applet, or old-mode webRTC :-)
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[16:35:02] <moderator> Plenty of points of failure...
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[16:35:34] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 30: “Performing”
[16:35:36] <Heinz> Not getting OPUS audio to work on my end, either. Latest Chrome on MacOS Lion
[16:35:48] <Heinz> Corporate proxy?
[16:35:54] <mjgraves> Indeed, I'm getting no audio on the new webrtc feed in Canary
[16:36:06] <danyork> Meetecho team - I'm using latest version of Firefox to hit WebRTC feed
[16:36:24] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 31: Early Sources of Confusion
[16:36:31] sm leaves the room
[16:36:34] <Heinz> VLC playback fails as well
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[16:36:51] <moderator> Would you be willing to send us a log of your jbrowser's java console?
[16:37:00] <moderator> We'l look into all these issues.
[16:37:15] <Randy Bush> ML, chrome, web-lite, in NOC, gl!tch free so phar
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[16:37:25] <moderator> Also, two lines on your hw config would be welcome.
[16:37:27] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 32: “Those Who Fail to Plan Are Planning t
[16:37:31] <Heinz> VLC returns "no route to host"
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[16:37:49] <danyork> moderator: Sure, if you tell me how to get that log and where to send it. :-)
[16:37:59] ehugg joins the room
[16:38:10] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 33: The Joys of Running Code
[16:38:12] <Ed Elkin> Seems to take a moment for audio to begin for me.  Two others are still waiting for audio.
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[16:38:56] <elwyne> chrome-android on android 4.0.3 has fairly poor audio with webrtc interface.. breaking up
[16:39:21] <moderator> Though, you have werbrtc audio on android!
[16:39:28] Dan York leaves the room
[16:39:38] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 34: Stumbling Towards Ecstasy
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[16:40:09] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 35: Outline
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[16:40:29] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 36: Specifications
[16:40:50] <elwyne> but firefox-22 on a puny netbook with ubuntu 10.04 seems to give good audio - forgot my headphone unfortunately
[16:41:02] <moderator> @dan Alex from meetecho is coming to look inot your issue
[16:41:11] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 37: Implementation
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[16:41:46] <Ted Lemon> I think those of us who are in the meeting room are killing the network with all the discrete video streams, so I'm disconnecting.
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[16:42:07] <elwyne> startup on boh chrome and firefox is pretty sow
[16:42:09] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 38: Adoption
[16:42:12] <elwyne> slow
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[16:43:00] <moderator> I think this is due to the time it takes to attach the client to the IETF jabber room. But will investigate in more depth...
[16:43:16] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 39: Case Study: WebRTC MTI
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[16:44:33] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 40: Why Was Audio So Much Easier?
[16:44:36] <elwyne> could well be
[16:44:43] <amirante> I think some issues might be caused by wifi overload here in the Plenary room
[16:45:01] <amirante> the room is very very crowded!
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[16:45:18] <SM> Are they updating their social networks?:)
[16:45:25] <amirante> I guess so!
[16:45:27] <moderator> :-)
[16:45:28] <amirante> :)
[16:45:42] <elwyne> its running smoothly on both platforms now it has started
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[16:45:53] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 41: Doing the same for video
[16:46:10] <danyork> Nice... the WebRTC is up and running in Chrome 29 on my Mac.  Audio sounds great.  Took a long time to start up but now that it is up it is working great.
[16:46:23] <moderator> Yeah!
[16:46:24] <amirante> Great!
[16:46:48] <danyork> How do I see the video?  I see *my* video but I don't want to see myself ;-)
[16:46:59] <amirante> Dan, now you're contributing in overloading this room's network... ;)
[16:47:06] <Tobia Castaldi> wait for it...
[16:47:12] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 42: Opus Deployment Panel
[16:47:14] <elwyne> should i see the speaker video in the webrtc ?
[16:47:22] <danyork> So how do I shut it off?
[16:47:30] <elwyne> i saw it in the classic interface
[16:47:33] elwynd leaves the room
[16:47:37] <SM> Close teh window
[16:47:49] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 43: Opus in Firefox
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[16:48:02] <amirante> elwyne: it depends on which browser you are running
[16:48:29] <danyork> In Chrome, how do I turn off my video stream?
[16:48:55] <amirante> Dan, I'm afraid you can't...
[16:48:58] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 44: Opus in other places
[16:49:03] sm joins the room
[16:49:05] <elwyne> chrome-android
[16:49:39] <amirante> but no worry, it's jusy a local feed, you're not sending your video to others!
[16:49:54] <danyork> amirante -  ah, I see.  Well you *did* tell us clearly that this was experimental! :-)
[16:50:08] Chris leaves the room
[16:50:09] <elwyne> and firefox-22.. which by the way just crashed and has to reconnect
[16:50:10] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 45: Chrome: Initial Work
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[16:50:33] <danyork> Nice ... I'm only getting about a 4 second lag in the WebRTC interface
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[16:51:06] <moderator> Your lag is due *just* to the wifi...
[16:51:52] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 46: Chrome Timeline
[16:51:59] <Anne> audio isn't working
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[16:52:12] <moderator> Which audio?
[16:52:28] Ed Elkin leaves the room
[16:52:28] <Anne> I see the slides.  I hear nothing.
[16:52:33] <danyork> I'm still getting audio in WebRTC
[16:52:33] Anand leaves the room
[16:52:38] <Randy Bush> what client, anne?
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[16:52:52] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 47: Chrome Timeline (cont’d)
[16:52:55] Anand joins the room
[16:53:07] <Anne> I'm on Chrome 28.0.1500.72 m
[16:53:19] <SM> Anne, which option did you choose for audio?
[16:53:36] <Anne> I didn't see any options.
[16:53:36] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 48: Chrome: Current Day
[16:53:49] <SM> Click on the Audio/Video tab
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[16:54:13] <Tobia Castaldi> Anne is using the experimental webrtc interface
[16:54:25] <SM> Ah
[16:54:28] <moderator> @SM thanks for helping!
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[16:55:04] <Tobia Castaldi> Anne, are you locale or remote?
[16:55:05] <Anne> Is the experimental webrtc interface not working?
[16:55:07] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 49: audio codecs in Jitsi
[16:55:12] <Anne> remote
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[16:55:55] <danyork> Anne - the experimental webrtc interface is working for me in Chrome with audio, but I'm also here in the room
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[16:56:29] <Anne> I just got a message from a colleague that he left and rejoined and it is now working for him.  I can drop and try again.
[16:56:45] mjgraves leaves the room
[16:56:57] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 50: then Opus happened
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[16:57:34] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 51: things we love in Opus
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[16:57:46] <Ed Elkin_2293> Out of 3 tries, audio & slides worked for the 1st & 3rd.  Slow response, gotta keep an eye open for the "Allow" button.  Looks like WebRTC works fine, but the control system is possibly overloaded.
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[16:59:08] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 52: Integrating Opus (1)
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[16:59:54] <SM> I thought that Asterisk was not supporting Opus
[17:00:20] <amirante> SM, we just patched it ;)
[17:00:25] <moderator> We are currently handling 63 people.
[17:00:31] <SM> Ah, nice:)
[17:01:01] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 53: Integrating Opus (2)
[17:01:03] <mgraves> left then rejoined the webrtc session, but still no audio
[17:01:04] Jack Moffitt 2 leaves the room
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[17:01:43] <moderator> Lorenzo form meetecho is now on the stage ;-)
[17:01:44] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 54: Asterisk integration
[17:02:02] <mgraves> Digium does not support Opus
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[17:02:31] <SM> Are there any downstreams providing the patch?
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[17:03:26] <elwyne> if you deny use of microphone does this also turn off  speaker (android) - colleague denied micro and has no incoming audio?
[17:04:12] <Anne again> I allowed both audio and video and I still don't get audio after dropping and rejoining.
[17:04:13] <danyork> The sound of the audio in the WebRTC version *is* excellent
[17:04:19] Marcos joins the room
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[17:04:41] <moderator> Dan, you just won a free Meetecho voucher!
[17:04:42] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 55: Open Mike
[17:04:43] Nicolas leaves the room
[17:05:07] <Andrew Feren> Tried the experimental version a few times, but kept getting some "error" and was thrown to the generic http://ietf87.conf.meetecho.com/ page.
[17:05:19] <Andrew Feren> flash has been working OK
[17:05:27] Bob leaves the room
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[17:05:54] <Tobia Castaldi> Andrew, try changing nickname
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[17:06:07] <amirante> Anne, if you deny the permission to use microphone, you won't get incoming audio
[17:06:09] <Randy Bush> IwantToTalk and EnableAudieOut not clickable on WebLite
[17:06:10] elwyne joins the room
[17:06:19] <Andrew Feren> Tobia I did.  I had to when I reconnected
[17:06:28] <Anne again> I allowed both microphone and camera
[17:06:32] <amirante> it's an issue we need to solve, of course...
[17:07:00] <Anne again> Is there a limit to the number of participants?
[17:07:43] <moderator> Is there any remote who wants to interact with the room?
[17:07:43] ctg1701 joins the room
[17:07:48] <Tobia Castaldi> no... the only limit is the available bandwidth on the server :)
[17:07:55] <amirante> Anne - it shoudn't, but the server we are employing (which is in Italy, btw) has not unlimited bandwidth...
[17:08:05] <Tobia Castaldi> :)
[17:08:12] ctg1701 leaves the room
[17:08:15] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 43: Opus in Firefox
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[17:08:37] <Y(J)S> I am not getting audio or video - tried all the options (listening using the IETF streaming audio channel 4 instead)
[17:09:32] <amirante> Y(J)S - some further information about your setup?
[17:09:54] <elwyne> yep..- on chrome-android if you deny use of micro you don't get any incoming audio
[17:10:03] Anand leaves the room
[17:10:13] <Y(J)S> Windows 7, IE9, have all the necessary plugins
[17:10:28] <Tobia Castaldi> did you try the rtsp stream?
[17:10:32] <Tobia Castaldi> rtsp://meetecho.meeting.ietf.org/jfqftvi.sdp
[17:10:54] <elwyne> btw I also got a timeout which meat ihad to restart the session from scratch
[17:11:02] PasiS joins the room
[17:11:08] <SM> Tobia, could you have some advanced tab for the relevant links?
[17:11:09] <elwyne> meant i had to...
[17:11:12] <Y(J)S> Yes, nothing happened, I also tried the flash and the HTML5 and the integrated VoIP
[17:11:17] <Tobia Castaldi> I've just checked and it's up, running and close to real time
[17:11:28] 83a51488c4e1e550 joins the room
[17:11:51] <Tobia Castaldi> if you are useing the standard meetecho interface, the link is in the audio/video tab
[17:11:54] <83a51488c4e1e550> (I have seen saying opus sampling rates 48khz only?  not 96K, nor 192?)
[17:12:07] <Tobia Castaldi> Multimedia Streaming (audio and/or video) option
[17:12:46] <83a51488c4e1e550> (also, I heard he said they opus were approached by equipment manufacturers about using of opus in microphones and other devices...)
[17:13:01] <SM> Ah, I am on Lite
[17:13:08] <83a51488c4e1e550> (does it mean they'd put OPUS in a microphone _together_ with IP?)
[17:13:14] Y(J)S leaves the room
[17:13:48] <SM> I meant, expose the URIs as an advanced option
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[17:14:26] <moderator> Hey you, remotes!
[17:14:28] Randy Bush leaves the room
[17:14:28] <moderator> NO questions?
[17:14:35] <moderator> No party!
[17:14:52] <moderator> Goodbye to everybody.
[17:14:52] Nick leaves the room
[17:15:02] <Azael> Bye.
[17:15:06] dgq 2 leaves the room
[17:15:12] <mgraves> bye everyone
[17:15:30] <moderator> @SM: we'll do that. Thanks for the advice!
[17:15:30] Roland Hedberg leaves the room
[17:15:44] <SM> Oh, it is a request.  Thanks for all the work
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[17:16:38] <amirante> Many thanks to all of you for the unvaluable feedback!
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[17:16:43] <Tobia Castaldi> Presentation stopped
[17:16:47] <gmaxwell> hm.  Commentary at the mic highlights a limitation of the IPR disclosure interface:  Two of the mentioned weird terms were (IIRC) the early skype and broadcom grants which were later _replaced_ with ones which were far less potentially objectionable.  But the old notices still show in the lists, so it takes some forensics to figure out which ones have replaced other ones.
[17:16:48] tomoyuki tsuichihara leaves the room
[17:16:55] <administrator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[17:16:55] <moderator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
[17:16:55] <amirante> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
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[17:23:39] <elwyne> is somebody going to summarize the results of today's execise?
[17:23:52] <elwyne> exercize
[17:24:18] <JcK> Mic: Since a few folks have now mentioned the 3-> 2 transition, could the IAB comment (or could we expect a report Wednesday) about how many more documents, proportionately, have been advanced out of Proposed Standard as a result?
[17:24:18] Heinz leaves the room
[17:24:26] <elwyne> or something!
[17:24:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> elwyne do you mean the Opus experiment?
[17:24:54] <elwyne> yep
[17:25:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> well you were one of the remotes, so let's start with you: what was your feeling about it? :)
[17:25:44] jib leaves the room
[17:26:06] <elwyne> (actually i'm in the room, but no matter)
[17:26:24] <moderator> ;-)
[17:26:51] <Andrew Feren> Lorenzo I had to fall back to web lite.  WebRTC threw me out with an error 2 or 3 times.  I gave up.
[17:26:54] <elwyne> clogging up the wi-fi
[17:26:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> ooh sorry, just saw you were on the WebRTC interface and thought you were attending remotely
[17:27:09] Greg leaves the room
[17:27:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Andrew do you remember which error it was?
[17:27:17] joelja leaves the room
[17:27:34] <Andrew Feren> wasn't on my screen long enough to reed
[17:27:36] <Andrew Feren> read
[17:27:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> I guess our server was quite busy and hiccups did happen
[17:27:51] <elwyne> elwynd and elwyne are the same person..
[17:28:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> as Tobia said, the only limit today was our server bandwidth and it was not infinite :)
[17:28:45] <gmaxwell> now the question is: did it fill up and just exclude people but otherwise work OK, or did it fill up and fail for everyone?
[17:29:06] marcos leaves the room
[17:29:10] <elwyne> the actual meetecho screen was stable in webrtc both in chrome-android and linux-firefox-22..hat works well
[17:29:34] <moderator> What did fill up?
[17:30:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> my guess is that it made harder for people to join, but it didn't affect users that were already in that much
[17:30:24] Chris leaves the room
[17:30:31] <elwyne> no speaker video compared with weblite
[17:30:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> a couple of us were here monitoring the stream and it looked/sounded fine
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[17:31:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> elwyne in Firefox the WebRTC interface had no video, right
[17:31:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> that's because we were using a different tool for video switching
[17:31:16] <moderator> The server was OK. The only issue, I believe, was for the local participants who were on the wireless.
[17:31:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> a nice open source component called Licode
[17:31:22] <JcK> @Lorenzo, I tried WebRTC too, couldn't  get it to connect and stay up, got thoroughly confused about the many options, tried the classical interface, and had to give up on it.   As someone who really is remote and who was dependent on having some working feed to follow what was going on, I can't afford to be patient with something that is slow, non-responsive, or this experimental.   That isn't a criticism of Meetecho, but an observation about usability/ participaton.
[17:31:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> that in the version we used doesn't support Firefox (they added support to it last week by the way)
[17:32:16] <Lorenzo Miniero> point taken JcK... could you drop us a mail with what confused you? every feedback we can get on that is more thna welcome
[17:32:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> we actually tried to make the WebRTC as easy as possible
[17:32:28] <danyork> JcK: I see you asked for a mic relay.  Do you still want a relay?  There are 4 or 5 people in line right now
[17:32:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> easier than WebLite at least
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[17:33:18] <JcK> @Lorenzo: I'll try to do so, but the screens are obviously now gone.  If you haven't heard from me with 24 hours, feel free to bug me.
[17:33:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok :)
[17:34:22] <danyork> JcK ?
[17:34:35] <elwyne> got the impression that maybe the opus codec is being a bit processor hungry  so that audio on both chrome-android on asus transformer tf300t and firefox-22 on linux 10.04 on intel atom 1.6GHz weee-pc2.. but that is a pretty puny box.  ctually the audio was rather better from what i could hear on firefox.
[17:34:47] <JcK> @DanYork: yes?
[17:34:57] <danyork> JcK: I see you asked for a mic relay.  Do you still want a relay?  There are 4 or 5 people in line right now
[17:35:33] <danyork> [19:24:23] <JcK> Mic: Since a few folks have now mentioned the 3-> 2 transition, could the IAB comment (or could we expect a report Wednesday) about how many more documents, proportionately, have been advanced out of Proposed Standard as a result?
[17:35:36] <JcK> Yes, if possible.  It is partially a followup to Scott's comments (and you might say that), but I think it is still worthwhile.
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[17:36:07] <elwyne> had timeouts on both platforms that needed  to restart whole session.. very tedious...looked like the same problem on both platforms.. the browser remained operatinal
[17:36:12] Jack Moffitt leaves the room
[17:36:57] <danyork> JcK: Okay - I'll get in line.  And is this John Klensin?
[17:37:05] <SM> Yes:)
[17:37:45] <JcK> @danyork.  Yep.
[17:37:54] <danyork> ack. in line now
[17:37:58] <elwyne> got run now..  who wants any extra comments?
[17:37:59] <JcK> thx
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[17:38:21] <mrex-ietf> one of the problems with "spec maintenance" is that many different folks are happy reading the PS document "their way".
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[17:39:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> elwyne, if you could summarize your feelings about your experience with the tool in a mail that would be great!
[17:39:24] elwynd leaves the room
[17:39:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> otherwise we can always extract them from the jabber logs
[17:39:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> but it would be nice to follow up on this with you
[17:39:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> so that we can get this sorted out for next time
[17:39:56] <elwyne> to what address?
[17:40:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> ietf-support@meetecho.com
[17:40:29] <elwyne> ok.. i'll think about any additional thoughts
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[17:40:36] <elwyne> bye and thanks
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[17:40:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> thanks for your feedback!
[17:40:44] <moderator> Thank you!
[17:41:07] <elwyne> np.. 'night
[17:41:24] <JcK> Mic: The answer to Allyssa's (?) question is that ISO's mandatory five-year review cycle actually does result in "doing better" (and a lot of second-system effects, which is a tradeoff).
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[17:42:03] <SM> The IAB did mention that the IETf does maintenance.
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[17:42:44] <JcK> who is speaking?
[17:42:48] <stpeter> "The world is kept alive only by heretics." Yevgeny Zamyatin
[17:42:53] <stpeter> that is Kathleen Moriarty
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[17:43:06] <JcK> thx Peter.
[17:43:38] elwyne leaves the room
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[17:44:01] <danyork> JcK: They unfortunately cut the mic line so I'm unable to relay
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[17:45:22] <JcK> @Dan: no problem, it is in the Jabber log
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[17:45:47] <Lorenzo Miniero> </opus-experiment> :-)
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[17:46:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok we're done, both with the plenary and the experiment
[17:47:09] <Tobia Castaldi> bye bye
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[17:47:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> if you've anything to share (praises, rants, whatever) feel free to do so!
[17:47:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> recordings will be made available ASAP
[17:47:30] <moderator> Goodbye, guys.
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[17:47:48] <moderator> New presentation: 01_NoteWell.pdf
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