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Friday, 3 August 2012< ^ >
LAPCI0108B4863EA has set the subject to: ROLL
Room Configuration

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[16:50:15] <abdussalambaryun> hello test
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[18:25:46] <abdussalambaryun> ok I hear
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[18:26:58] <adrianfarrel> agenda bash
[18:27:03] <Michael Richardson> who is remove? please mic: if you want it channeled.
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[18:28:19] <a34467> I'm remote.. (Alper). Thanks
[18:28:24] <adrianfarrel> Doc status
[18:28:34] <adrianfarrel> Milestones
[18:30:19] <abdussalambaryun> ok we hear
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[18:34:30] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter
[18:34:34] <adrianfarrel> No objections in room
[18:34:41] <adrianfarrel> Go ahead...
[18:34:48] <abdussalambaryun> Do we resrrict to L2
[18:35:04] <abdussalambaryun> could we give L3 also
[18:35:16] <adrianfarrel> I'm at the mic
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[18:35:56] <abdussalambaryun> ok thanks
[18:36:00] <abdussalambaryun> agree
[18:36:28] <a34467> which Id is Michael referring to now?
[18:37:06] <adrianfarrel> This is his appl statement template I-D
[18:37:38] <adrianfarrel> draft-richardson-roll-applicability-template-00
[18:39:31] <abdussalambaryun> yes
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[18:39:44] <abdussalambaryun> so if the templet
[18:40:21] <abdussalambaryun> includes every thing, what about our requirements and applicability of each draft
[18:41:36] <adrianfarrel> So, sorry, we moved on. Suggest sending mail to michael, but I think the objective is to partition the deployment space with a number of drafts each of which uses the template
[18:41:51] <abdussalambaryun> To make it simple: will it include every thing, and each draft in future just refers to it?
[18:41:59] <adrianfarrel> No
[18:42:08] <adrianfarrel> The intention is to document a template
[18:42:17] <adrianfarrel> That is an empty table of contents
[18:42:23] <abdussalambaryun> ok thanks Adrian
[18:42:28] <adrianfarrel> then all documents know what information to include in future
[18:42:29] <Michael Richardson> abdussalambaryn: requirements tell us what problems to solve. the protocols is a set of tools to solve problems. the applicability says which tools make sense in which environments.
[18:42:43] <abdussalambaryun> thanks
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[18:42:58] <Michael Richardson> ah, you weren't asking the question I thought. Yes, what Adrian said.
[18:43:24] <adrianfarrel> Meanwhile...
JP on RPL-large-scale-deployment <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-2.pdf>
[18:43:41] <abdussalambaryun> is this presentation ( roll-2)
[18:44:01] <adrianfarrel> yup
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[18:48:08] <abdussalambaryun> why number of hops max is 5 while we doing large scale?
[18:48:32] <abdussalambaryun> while 100 nodes
[18:49:14] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: JP
[18:50:35] <abdussalambaryun> yes interested very
[18:50:45] <adrianfarrel> at mic
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[18:53:07] <abdussalambaryun> Thanks Adrian
[18:53:56] <adrianfarrel> gotta love the quote : "I'm not as clever as you are"
[18:54:26] <abdussalambaryun> me too :)
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[18:59:29] <abdussalambaryun> I want to note that LLNs have efficient nodes, they may sleep and be awake so even if we have 1000s at L2 its ok, because L2 is scheduling, so I disagree with Thomas, because he only mentioned routing
[18:59:56] <abdussalambaryun> we should include scheduling as trickle
[19:00:08] <adrianfarrel> maybe 15+ hands
[19:00:17] <abdussalambaryun> add me please
[19:00:19] <adrianfarrel> maybe 20+ hands
[19:00:31] <adrianfarrel> maybe 10 "demand" more details
[19:00:38] <abdussalambaryun> I agree with docs
[19:00:47] <abdussalambaryun> yes mnore details
[19:01:18] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter and WG
[19:01:36] <abdussalambaryun> sorry ment JP
[19:01:41] <abdussalambaryun> and WG
[19:02:48] <abdussalambaryun> Is new presentation> Multicast Forwarding in LLNs
[19:02:50] <adrianfarrel> c. 10 hands read document
[19:02:58] <adrianfarrel> yes
[19:03:41] <adrianfarrel> Sorry, this is Trickle Multicast <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-5.pptx>
[19:05:42] <abdussalambaryun> SeedID, SeqNo, what about RPL-router ID?
[19:05:52] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter
[19:06:18] <adrianfarrel> going to mic
[19:08:10] <abdussalambaryun> no do you include
[19:08:21] <abdussalambaryun> seed and router ID
[19:08:48] <abdussalambaryun> why
[19:09:23] <abdussalambaryun> ok no need I will comment on the List
[19:09:24] <adrianfarrel> I think the router ID is implicit because it is in the context of the communication
[19:09:34] <adrianfarrel> Thanks, yes that is probably best
[19:09:44] <abdussalambaryun> Thanks Adrian
[19:22:25] <Michael Richardson> this is now slides-84-roll-0
[19:23:05] <adrianfarrel> Multicast Requirements for LLN in Buildings - draft-vanderstok-roll-mcreq <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-0.pptx>
[19:32:58] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter
[19:33:28] <abdussalambaryun> How long was the run simulation or the experiment?
[19:34:37] <adrianfarrel> at mic
[19:35:52] <abdussalambaryun> Thanks Adrian
[19:36:16] <Michael Richardson> roll-3.pdf is next... Tero.
[19:36:21] <adrianfarrel> 802.15.9 <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-3.pdf>
[19:39:04] <Michael Richardson> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/documents?is_group=0009
[19:39:13] <Michael Richardson> (no login required)
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[19:39:40] <a34467> slide #?
[19:39:54] <abdussalambaryun> is it 4
[19:40:01] <a34467> thanks
[19:40:10] <abdussalambaryun> I not sure
[19:40:24] <Michael Richardson> slide marked "3"
[19:41:26] <adrianfarrel> now slide 4
[19:43:15] <adrianfarrel> now slide 6
[19:44:38] <yusuke.doi> 8
[19:45:05] <yusuke.doi> 9
[19:45:32] <yusuke.doi> 10
[19:46:05] <yusuke.doi> 11
[19:47:12] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter, Is there overload by using this, and did you evaluate how much is the efficiency
[19:47:32] <abdussalambaryun> compared to 15.4
[19:49:11] <abdussalambaryun> ok Thanks Adrian
[19:49:54] <yusuke.doi> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-11.pdf
[19:50:04] <yusuke.doi> [Where do I get my keys?]
[19:50:26] <yusuke.doi> [Secure Bootstrapping Protocol]
[19:51:18] <yusuke.doi> [What do the keys do?]
[19:52:07] <yusuke.doi> [What are my ...]
[19:53:19] <abdussalambaryun> from: Abdussalam > To: The Presenter
[19:53:32] <abdussalambaryun> do we doing here management or security
[19:53:38] <abdussalambaryun> or both
[19:53:39] <yusuke.doi> [General security objectives]
[19:54:10] <adrianfarrel> I like that question
[19:54:12] <abdussalambaryun> as he saying who making decision as management!
[19:54:31] <adrianfarrel> I think there is an "operational" question about what security is run in a network
[19:54:58] <adrianfarrel> Security is about providing the lock on the door. If you choose to leave your door open, that is up to you (i.e. management)
[19:55:09] <yusuke.doi> [Thing lifecycle...]
[19:55:13] <adrianfarrel> Our job is to provide the necessary tools
[19:55:18] <abdussalambaryun> yes
[19:55:27] <abdussalambaryun> but he mentioned like management
[19:55:36] <adrianfarrel> ah, got you
[19:57:09] <yusuke.doi> [Objective]
[19:58:53] <abdussalambaryun> Maintains security over a lifecycle, slide 6
[19:59:19] <yusuke.doi> [Technology pieces]
[19:59:51] <abdussalambaryun> as management security/ maintainance, or is it self organise/ smart-node
[20:00:41] <yusuke.doi> [SOLACE: Where to put it]
[20:00:42] <adrianfarrel> it's all a bit hand-wavey :-(
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[20:01:29] <adrianfarrel> Lars on his way to mic
[20:01:35] <a34467> IRTF?? This is not "research"
[20:01:50] <yusuke.doi> [How to start it]
[20:02:03] <abdussalambaryun> which slides, where
[20:02:13] <a34467> just because these two WGs do not have security expertise does not mean the next stop is IRTF
[20:02:34] <adrianfarrel> I would want to see the proposal before judging, but it seems to me that this is a real problem close to immediate deployments
[20:02:34] <yusuke.doi> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-11.pdf slide #11
[20:02:59] <adrianfarrel> It depends whether you want to paint a complete picture or to deploy kit
[20:03:57] <a34467> we need to have structured discussions around this topic
[20:04:55] <adrianfarrel> I wonder whether there is a BoF on this needed (no particular area). I would like to see some straw man documents written in next couple of months
[20:05:00] <Robert Cragie> I agree with what Yoshi is saying - a single use case won't be enough. If we are going down the architecture route then we should develop a number of use cases and classify them
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[20:05:36] <adrianfarrel> The "grand challenge" issue is the point. That *does* seem like IRTF. Single use case seems like a need for deployment
[20:05:56] <adrianfarrel> Question: what is driving this?
[20:07:08] <Robert Cragie> The irony is that the whole lifecycle issue is so complex *because* there are so many use cases. So without a rigorous analysis and classification of the use cases I doubt we will get any closer to developing an architecture
[20:07:26] <a34467> we should scope out the problem space before tossing the whole thing to IRTF...
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[20:07:41] <a34467> some can be done in IETF, some in IRTF...
[20:07:42] <Robert Cragie> @a34467: Agree
[20:08:00] <a34467> (a33467=alper. hi :-)
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[20:08:15] <Robert Cragie> Hi Alper!
[20:08:29] <a34467> Robert?
[20:09:13] <adrianfarrel> anyone used webex in this meeting?
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[20:09:28] <abdussalambaryun> no
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[20:09:45] <abdussalambaryun> Thanks
[20:10:04] <adrianfarrel> bye
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[20:10:07] <abdussalambaryun> bye
[20:10:17] <a34467> thanks all, bye
[20:10:31] <abdussalambaryun> ok bye a34467
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