IETF
rtcweb@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, March 12, 2013< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: RTCWEB WG http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/agenda
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[12:43:44] Meetecho RTCWEB Video joins the room
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[12:59:52] <Ted> Greetings.  If you would like something relayed to the room, please put MIC: in front of it.
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[13:01:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWEB IETF 86
[13:01:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Note Well
[13:01:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Agenda Day 1
[13:02:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Chairs
[13:02:03] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Agenda Day 1
[13:02:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Agenda Day 2
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[13:05:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Agenda Day 1
[13:05:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
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[13:10:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: DataChannels, take 2
[13:10:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: DataChannels, take 2
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[13:10:33] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Changes since Atlanta/Interim
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[13:13:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: External negotiation of channels
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[13:14:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Open issues
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[13:16:15] <Ted> Is anyone in the jabber room listening to the audio?  If so, how are the levels?
[13:16:33] <mhp> not bad at present - was heavily distorted earlier
[13:16:44] <Ted> Thanks
[13:16:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> I'm in the room, but I'm monitoring the remote audio (the one we provide I mean) and it sounds fine
[13:17:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> by the way, a Meetecho room is available for this RTCWEB session, with an integrated view of lsides, jabber room and audio/video feed http://www.meetecho.com/ietf86/rtcweb
[13:17:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> *slides
[13:17:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Questions/Discussion
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[13:19:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Open issues
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[13:25:25] <Stefan Håkansson> +1 to Peter Thatcher's comment
[13:25:48] <danyork> Are there remote participants?
[13:25:56] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Yes
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[13:26:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> the audio stream is bad
[13:26:05] <Stefan Håkansson> Me too!
[13:26:18] <danyork> I can relay questions if necessary.  Just preface a question with "mic:" please
[13:26:24] <Stefan Håkansson> Audio is fine, except for Magnus' mike
[13:26:41] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Ahh, was it only Magnus
[13:26:42] <Binod> Yes, Audio is generally fine.
[13:26:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Olle, have you tried the audio in Meetecho?
[13:26:54] <Erik Lagerway> +1 to Peter's comment
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[13:27:18] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I hear Harald clearly, so it was propably just a bad mic
[13:28:23] <Ted> hi Stefan; we've adjusted Magnus's mic; are you still having trouble?
[13:28:27] <Erik Lagerway> Audio via RTCWEB / Meetecho is great.
[13:28:42] <Stefan Håkansson> you'd need to have Magnus say something...
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[13:28:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Opus rules :)
[13:29:19] <Robin Raymond> I'm very happy data channel is not in SDP, would like it totally separate as much as possible
[13:29:39] <Stefan Håkansson> (that said, we can hear Magnus ok, it is just a bit distorted)
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[13:35:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[13:35:20] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Can we vote for consensus on getting a new microphone for Magnus?
[13:35:29] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> :-)
[13:35:43] <Stefan Håkansson> +1 for new microphone to Magnus
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[13:36:27] <Erik Lagerway> much better on the mic
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[13:36:45] <magnus> So i am still hot and causing clipping.
[13:37:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Data Channel Negotiation
[13:37:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: API
[13:37:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: How to use SCTP
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[13:38:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Negotiation Requirements
[13:39:02] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> We should always require slide #s on the slide in IETF presentations.
[13:39:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: No In-Band Protocol
[13:39:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> I think you need to count ducks in this slide decks :)
[13:40:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: 3. SDP-Only Option
[13:40:08] <danyork> Olle - agreed!
[13:40:30] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> My daughter loved the presentation. She love rubber ducks and gave Martin +10 for the ducks.
[13:40:36] <Jonathan Lennox> Olle: someone mentioned recently (on the IETF list, I think?) they should have all of slide number, presenter name, presentation name
[13:41:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: 3. Offer/Answer
[13:41:03] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I've been nagging about it before, having acted as a jabber scribe many times.
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[13:42:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: 3A. No Negotiation Option
[13:42:54] <magnus> Sorry forgot to check for slides numbers.
[13:43:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: QUESTIONS
[13:43:29] <danyork> It's all about the ducks
[13:43:51] <mhp> Slides MUST contain slide number, MAY contain presenter's name and SHOULD contain ducks
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[13:44:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> maybe not that many though :)
[13:44:37] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Is there a duck quota per session?
[13:45:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> we probably exceeded the duck quota per week
[13:45:58] <danyork> Next up, the duck congestion protocol
[13:46:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> All this work, just to share duck videos.
[13:46:42] <danyork> :-)
[13:47:16] <mhp> Moving on from the cat video monoculture!
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[13:50:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[13:50:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWeb Data Channel Management
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[13:50:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Jerome Marcon
[13:50:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWeb Data Channel Management
[13:51:17] <Ted> Another  negotiation protocol...
[13:51:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Problem:
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[13:54:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Solution: Figure
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[13:56:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Solution (1/3)
[13:56:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Solution (2/3)
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[13:57:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Solution (3/3)
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[13:58:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Benefits
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[14:00:16] <Bernard TUY> Solution figure is not in the on line slide set. Is it a mistake ?
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[14:01:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Bernard are you sure? I think we got them from the material page to upload them in Meetecho
[14:01:21] <Ted> Hi Bernard  The one we're displaying is the one we uploaded
[14:01:38] <Bernard TUY> I just download the slide set from the website ...
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[14:02:49] <magnus> Bernard, a ppt or a pdf?
[14:02:55] <Bernard TUY> the slide is there but the schema doesn't display
[14:02:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Bernard try on here as well: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/slides/slides-86-rtcweb.html
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[14:04:49] <Bernard TUY> I'm doing it, but that's abit slow to get the file
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[14:05:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> It's a ppt that doesn't show the picture here either (in Keynote)
[14:05:05] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Better with PDFs
[14:05:12] <Bernard TUY> this set is oK. Thanx !
[14:05:55] Serge Lachapelle joins the room
[14:08:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> EVeryone loves to hate SDP.
[14:09:52] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Oh, that was hard, Harald
[14:10:49] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> "A vastly complex overkill that doesn't get rid of any disadvantages" - Harald
[14:12:39] <Erik Lagerway> Is there a way for us remote attendees to know who is at the mic?
[14:12:55] <Erik Lagerway> via the jabber chat?
[14:13:07] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> DO we have a jabber scribe?
[14:13:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Please present the speakers. Thank you.
[14:13:27] <Erik Lagerway> thx Olle
[14:13:30] <hta> I'm just not feeling polite today. sorry.
[14:13:54] <Serge Lachapelle> i can represent.
[14:14:00] <Serge Lachapelle> just tell me what to say
[14:14:29] <Ted> If you want things reflected to the room, please put MIC: in front.
[14:14:30] <danyork> Bernard Aboba at the mic, Adam Roach behind him
[14:14:42] <Erik Lagerway> thx Dan
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[14:14:45] <Ted> Serge, if you want to reflect, that's fine, or I can do it from the front
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[14:15:03] <Serge Lachapelle> ok, I will let the pro handle it
[14:15:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> hta: Spent too much quality time with legal people I guess ;-)
[14:15:52] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Tell adam to back off a bit from the mic
[14:15:54] <danyork> Olle & Erik, I don't know who is the jabber scribe, but I'm willing to type in the names of people at the mic who I know or can understand
[14:16:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Thanks DAn
[14:16:08] <danyork> Adam Roach at the mic.  Hadrial queuing at the back
[14:16:10] <Erik Lagerway> thx Dan
[14:16:24] <danyork> Hadriel Kaplan
[14:16:38] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> This microphone is broken too...
[14:16:40] <Serge Lachapelle> next up, richard azak
[14:16:55] <Ted> You can't hear Hadriel, or it is warped?
[14:17:36] <magnus> Better?
[14:17:37] <danyork> Hadriel warped?  Are you talking about his voice? ;-)
[14:18:17] <Erik Lagerway> +1 Hadriel, +1 Adam
[14:18:25] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I can hear, but there's distortion
[14:18:28] <Robin Raymond> +1 Adam
[14:18:37] <Ted> Okay, we'll ask folks to move to the front mic
[14:18:38] <Jaya Mandava> +1 Adam
[14:19:09] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who's speaking now?
[14:19:14] <Ted> Richard
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[14:21:03] <Ted> Now speaking Martin
[14:22:14] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> I hear Robert's voice :-9
[14:22:17] <Serge Lachapelle> robert sparks
[14:22:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> :-)
[14:22:47] <Erik Lagerway> +1 RJS
[14:23:09] <Robin Raymond> +1 RJS
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[14:24:58] <Robin Raymond> +1 Adam
[14:25:05] <Erik Lagerway> +1 Adam
[14:25:22] <danyork> Randal Jesup
[14:25:28] <danyork> (someone else)
[14:25:37] <Ted> Justin Uberti
[14:25:45] <magnus> Justin U
[14:25:47] <danyork> Randal
[14:25:50] <Jonathan Lennox> Martin Thomson
[14:25:56] <danyork> Ah, yes, Justin... thanks!
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[14:26:54] <Erik Lagerway> hum
[14:27:11] <Jonathan Lennox> On Jabber please indicate which option you are humming for
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[14:27:27] <Erik Lagerway> randall's doc - hum
[14:27:28] <Serge Lachapelle> randels document adopted
[14:27:29] <Jaya Mandava> hum for randel
[14:27:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> Randel won :)
[14:27:42] <Erik Lagerway> nevermind ;)
[14:27:51] <Stefan Håkansson> hum for rabdells doc
[14:27:53] <Erik Lagerway> w00t!
[14:28:10] <Stefan Håkansson> s/rabdell/randell/
[14:29:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWEB Security LC Comments (good parts
[14:29:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Thanks to
[14:29:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Documents
[14:29:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Eric Rescorla
[14:29:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Documents
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[14:29:59] <Erik Lagerway> Gotta go, thx for scribing Dan, Serge, et al
[14:30:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Overview
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[14:31:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-04
[14:31:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Perfect Forward Secrecy (Aboba)
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[14:35:22] <Serge Lachapelle> justin at mic
[14:35:37] <Serge Lachapelle> jonathan, bernard in queue
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[14:36:06] <Serge Lachapelle> justin back
[14:37:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Name of the system (Westerlund)
[14:37:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch-06
[14:37:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Mixed content (Westerlund, Johston)
[14:41:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who's talking?
[14:41:50] <Serge Lachapelle> cant see his badge
[14:42:07] <danyork> BTW, I had to leave (over in SIDR now), so I'm not there to add names in anymore.
[14:42:09] <hta> That was Phil Hallam-Baker.
[14:42:16] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> EKR: Go to the mike!
[14:42:30] <hta> EKR has ahis own mike.
[14:42:31] <danyork> he's not in the room
[14:42:40] <danyork> he's not in the (Jabber) room
[14:43:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Linkage Issues (Westerlund)
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[14:44:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Guy on the other end (Thomson)
[14:45:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: Screen Sharing (Uberti)
[14:46:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Is screen sharing just a video source or another protocol?
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[14:46:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> video source
[14:46:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> it's something you can ask for with getUserMedia
[14:46:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> SO screen sharing is the same as another video
[14:47:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> RDP or VNC on the other hand gives access to keyboard/mouse
[14:47:21] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> That's another case.
[14:47:31] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Which one is under discussion?
[14:47:34] <Serge Lachapelle> screensharing and screencasting are not the same
[14:47:43] <Serge Lachapelle> which should be careful mixing the two
[14:47:51] <Jonathan Lennox> Well, the security considerations are different.
[14:47:51] <Serge Lachapelle> i think it is catsing
[14:47:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 13: How to talk about site authentication (J
[14:48:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> So we need to clarify this
[14:48:12] <Serge Lachapelle> yup
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[14:49:47] <Jonathan Lennox> It occurs to me that many of the threats EKR's e-mail described for screen [casting] could also apply for regular video, if your camera can pick up the screen (or a reflection of your screen).
[14:50:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> My glasses are a security issue
[14:50:23] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> eyeglasses
[14:50:37] <Serge Lachapelle> yes, if I dont have them, people's security is at risk
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[14:50:44] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> :-)
[14:50:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[14:51:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[14:51:13] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Use of RTCP XR in WebRTC
[14:51:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Colin Perkins
[14:51:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Use of RTCP XR in WebRTC
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[14:53:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Open Issue: RTCP XR
[14:53:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Show me any working RTCP implementations in SIP phones...
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[14:54:09] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> (Working with RTCP right now, so a bit depressed)
[14:54:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Open Issue: Congestion Feedback
[14:56:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Proposals
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[14:56:54] <Serge Lachapelle> just to be picky... WebRTC is shipping
[14:57:13] <Serge Lachapelle> the previous slide mentionned "likely to ship"
[14:57:34] <magnus> Fully compliant with the rtp usage doc.
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[15:04:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Did I REALLY hear "INFO packet"… Tss tss.
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[15:07:20] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Who's speaking?
[15:07:36] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Roni
[15:07:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> yes
[15:15:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
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[15:15:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: FEC FRAME for WebRTC
[15:15:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Giri Mandyam
[15:15:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: FEC FRAME for WebRTC
[15:16:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Introduction
[15:17:08] <Tim Panton> Huh ? isn't this the domain of the codec ?
[15:17:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: FEC streaming
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[15:18:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: FEC streaming trade-offs
[15:19:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: FEC streaming example
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[15:21:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: What is Requested
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[15:22:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[15:22:14] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Do we actually disallow stuff in SDP
[15:22:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Consideration with WebRTC in Mobile Networks
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[15:22:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Agenda
[15:23:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Introduction -Scope of this draft
[15:23:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: LTE Bearers - QOS
[15:23:24] <hta> so the important part of FEC is that nobody's suggesting it be a MUST or a SHOULD for RTCWEB. That's good.
[15:23:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Problems with Multiplexing
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[15:25:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Possible Solutions
[15:26:35] <Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1)> Hannes talking
[15:27:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Proxy Mobile IPv
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[15:28:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: PIPTO - Slelected IP Traffic Offload
[15:28:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Next Steps
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[15:29:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
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