IETF
saag
saag@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, April 7, 2016< ^ >
dkg has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF94: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda/saag/
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[16:58:48] sftcd has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF95: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/95/agenda/saag/
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[17:03:06] <yaron.sheffer> Hi all, I will be Jabber scribe. If you want me to channel you to the mic, please prefix comments with "mic"
[17:03:56] <Derek Atkins> Thanks Yaron
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[17:05:18] <yaron.sheffer> DKG at the mike.
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[17:05:46] <sftcd> joe salowey @ mic
[17:05:47] <yaron.sheffer> Joe Salloway speaking
[17:07:08] <yaron.sheffer> Hannes speaking
[17:07:09] <Derek Atkins> "You're welcome, Hannes!"
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[17:09:14] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> Yes on Jabber twice ;-)
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[17:10:31] <yaron.sheffer> Paul Hoffman speaking
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[17:11:08] <yaron.sheffer> Sandy Murphy
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[17:12:25] <yaron.sheffer> Karen O.
[17:12:54] <yaron.sheffer> Bob Moskowitz
[17:13:27] <yaron.sheffer> Kyle Rose
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[17:17:35] <yaron.sheffer> Rich Salz slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-saag-2.pdf
[17:17:54] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> Can Rich step a little to his right?
[17:17:54] mcr-soho joins the room
[17:18:21] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> The laptop between Stephen and Yoav is centered
[17:18:33] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> I guess that's STephen's
[17:18:37] <sftcd> or meetecho can you point the camera at rich:-)
[17:18:57] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> That would be good
[17:18:59] <Meetecho> ack :)
[17:19:05] <Kathleen Moriarty_8725> Done, thanks
[17:21:43] <yaron.sheffer> Yoav Nir
[17:22:01] <yaron.sheffer> Paul Hoffman
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[17:24:40] <surabhi kashyap> hummmmm
[17:26:27] <yaron.sheffer> Tim Polk
[17:26:35] <Derek Atkins> mic: but this hurdle is ONLY for MTI crypto, right?  OTI Crypto should require a much lower bar.
[17:26:54] <JoeHallCDT> I think that's part of the discussion
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[17:30:22] <mcr-soho> I imagine a seedy side meeting, occuring sometime after the scotch bof, where "bad" crypto gathers.
[17:30:25] <yaron.sheffer> Jan Vcelak: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-saag-3.pdf
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[17:35:43] <yaron.sheffer> DKG speaking
[17:35:54] <fgont> Please ask flks to spell their names
[17:36:32] <yaron.sheffer> Andrew Sullivan
[17:36:49] <Peter Koch> mic: how would the computational burden change for validators from NSEC3 to NSEC5?
[17:36:53] H K leaves the room
[17:36:55] <yaron.sheffer> DKG = Daniel Kahn Gilmore, in case you were asking.
[17:37:31] ted.h joins the room
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[17:38:16] <Peter Koch> thanks
[17:38:29] <yaron.sheffer> John Dickinson
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[17:39:37] <yaron.sheffer> Dan York
[17:39:44] <Peter Koch> indeed, no fun debugging ;-)
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[17:41:18] <yaron.sheffer> Tuomas Aura: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-saag-4.pdf
[17:41:47] Garima Pandey joins the room
[17:42:11] <Garima Pandey> hummmm
[17:43:15] <mcr-soho> Yeah, I think we should standardize something like this method.  Better than everyone inventing their own QR based system.
[17:43:44] <sftcd> @mcr: do you mean the basic mechanism or the EAP part?
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[17:44:38] <Garima Pandey> what is AAA??
[17:44:57] <mcr-soho> Authentication, Authorization,  Accounting.
[17:45:13] <Garima Pandey> ok,...thnk u
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[17:45:52] <mcr-soho> sftcd: I'm not sure how much this is attached to EAP, as I haven't read the draft, but it seems that you have to have a transport to make this work, and EAP fits in most places easily.
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[17:46:39] <mcr-soho> Only works for devices with high fidelity displays/printers, I think.
[17:47:09] <jimsch> They talk about using an ASCII string in the document not a QR code
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[17:47:13] <yaron.sheffer> No, just now he's talking about things that don't have UI.
[17:47:41] <yaron.sheffer> Oh, no *input* UI.
[17:47:47] <mcr-soho> And the which network is mine is the *real* IoT enrollment problem. So this is useful for home appliances... the Web Connected Things that presume to call themselves IoT, but aren't.
[17:48:10] <sftcd> where's the AAA server be?
[17:48:45] <jimsch> It lives in an unknown world.  And with a magic registration to recognize the special name
[17:49:12] <jimsch> I assume I put one up in my own house, but not completely clear
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[17:49:18] <jimsch> Nor is this really an EAP protocol
[17:49:33] <mcr-soho> sftcd: the AAA server is at the manufacturer.  It's for siloed vertical Web Connected Things, but if we expect those things to get better security, we need standards, and we also need standards so that this process can be outsourced to an expert operator.
[17:50:47] <yaron.sheffer> Hannes speaking
[17:50:59] <mcr-soho> I'm not following the crypto between audio, accents, and not enough bier.  (I'm not even trying to be honest)
[17:51:06] <sftcd> it can work if the manuf is part of the game I agree
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[17:51:28] <jimsch> mcr-soho:  If the AAA server is at the manufacture, does it ot require a different name for each manufacturer?  It only talks about one special name
[17:51:53] <mcr-soho> Hannes has got it wrong: I don't think that this solves the default password problem; it solves the problem of how does the manufacturer's silo'ed web site know that *I* am the correct owner to the device.
[17:52:42] <mcr-soho> It might eliminate the need for a password though.
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[17:54:37] <mcr-soho> I imagine that this EAP occurs in an HTTPS session to the manufacturer, not in a 1x.  But he seems to be talking about 1x actually.
[17:54:40] <yaron.sheffer> Bob Moskowitz speaking
[17:55:40] <mcr-soho> skipping out to netconf meeting.
[17:55:41] <yaron.sheffer> A single LED can have all the bandwidth/UI that we need here.
[17:55:56] <yaron.sheffer> Dan Harkins
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[17:57:31] <yaron.sheffer> Fernando Gont: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-saag-6.pdf
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[18:00:29] <sftcd> does anyone know already that they have an open-mic topic? if you do and you want to note it here or IM me that might help us ensure there's enough time
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[18:11:57] <yaron.sheffer> Elliot Lear speaking
[18:12:23] Rahul Aggarwal joins the room
[18:12:29] Antoin Verschuren leaves the room
[18:12:48] <yaron.sheffer> Ted Hardie
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[18:14:00] <yaron.sheffer> @sftcd please mention the PKIX bar BOF at the open mic slot.
[18:14:02] <Andrew Sullivan> I sat down because Ted said exactly what I wanted to
[18:15:07] <sftcd> he does do that:-)
[18:15:12] <mcr-soho> what I got from the discussion was that we should amend the BCP that demands Security Considerations to include references to two new documents.
[18:15:25] <Andrew Sullivan> But when someone does that, for the sake of others, I sit down :)
[18:15:36] <sftcd> they should make you the IAB chair or something
[18:15:48] <Andrew Sullivan> No, they should never do that again
[18:15:59] <mcr-soho> the lady doth protest too much.
[18:16:24] <Fearghas McKay> hummmmm
[18:16:39] <Andrew Sullivan> I've already told the IAB about my employer's tolerance for all this, so not too much no
[18:16:49] <Andrew Sullivan> (But that's rather off topic)
[18:17:17] <mcr-soho> we are merely trying to *SECURE* your role as IAB chair.
[18:17:20] <yaron.sheffer> Elliot Lear: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/slides/slides-95-saag-5.pdf
[18:17:32] <sftcd> 3552 hum in the room wasn't overwhelming but a good few, nobody hummed to not do stuff that I heard
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[18:19:28] <mcr-soho> sftcd: but I wasn't clear what we were humming for... was my comment about amending RFC3552 the idea?
[18:19:58] <sftcd> sorr, yes the question was "should we update rfc3552?"
[18:20:21] <Kathleen Moriarty> yes
[18:20:22] <yaron.sheffer> Same slides, Michael Behringer
[18:21:49] <sftcd> I got one person tell me they had an open-mic topic so I'll plan to let this run until 1545 - do tell me if that's a bad plan
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[18:24:05] <Kathleen Moriarty> I had to switch to audio only as meetecho is showing up as having network errors.
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[18:24:10] <mcr-soho> I just had a frozen/audio video issue with meetecho.
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[18:24:19] <mcr-soho> Kathleen: you too.  
[18:24:36] <Kathleen Moriarty> You are local to the meeting, mcr, right?
[18:24:39] <Meetecho> streams seem fine here: are they still broken?
[18:25:07] <Kathleen Moriarty> I reloaded twice and it worked, then didn't.  I need to hear the session, so I just went to audio
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[18:25:13] <John Leslie> webrtc is quite; html5 works
[18:25:28] <Derek Atkins> Had an issue -- had to login again.
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[18:25:58] <John Leslie> BTW, slides froze a long time ago...
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[18:26:13] <Meetecho> for a slides+audio only alternative (separate jabber client needed) you can use this Flash-based link: http://conf.meetecho.com/video?s=pacificoa&r=saag&c=8895122
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[18:29:09] <John Leslie> Nice slides there... apparently no audio (but that's not an issue)
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[18:30:31] <yaron.sheffer> Same slides, back to Elliot.
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[18:36:15] <yaron.sheffer> Hannes at the mic
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[18:42:14] <yaron.sheffer> Elliot again.
[18:42:37] <yaron.sheffer> Bob Moskowitz
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[18:43:28] <yaron.sheffer> Hannes responding
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[18:44:23] <sftcd> buy my chips!
[18:44:37] <mcr-soho> I feel that the performance of a device that has to be landfill'ed due to inadequate security should be considered.
[18:45:34] <Derek Atkins> mic: Small in CPU or small in transmission?
[18:45:43] <Derek Atkins> (okay, maybe not to the mic)
[18:46:04] <jimsch> derek:  From my talks with Bob - both
[18:46:11] <jimsch> Also small in memory
[18:46:32] <yaron.sheffer> Stephen asking
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[18:46:53] <mcr-soho> some manufacturers may be nortel.
[18:47:12] <sftcd> at least they gave us IP addresses
[18:47:27] <yaron.sheffer> Elliot
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[18:48:18] <mcr-soho> mic: the need to be able to resell devices is closely associated with the need for owners to have their devices outlive manufacturers.  But there are potential replay concerns if we permit resell.  
[18:48:46] Suzanne leaves the room
[18:49:21] <sftcd> I get 3 answers:-)
[18:49:21] <yaron.sheffer> Hannes
[18:49:36] <sftcd> so open-mic is open now
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[18:52:20] <mcr-soho> Who was the last person speaking, asking?  This is of a great concern to me.
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[18:53:02] <sftcd> yaron sheffer
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[18:53:12] <sftcd> asked the question, hannes now speaking
[18:53:56] <mcr-soho> yes, he relayed me. there was a speaker before him...  but while vendors have business models, the public have interests as well.
[18:54:02] <yaron.sheffer> Carsten Borman
[18:54:04] <sftcd> hannes
[18:54:15] <sftcd> sorry hannes was the one who said biz models
[18:54:17] <mcr-soho> O
[18:54:22] <mcr-soho> I'm remote. I'm sure of it!!!
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[18:55:55] <derek> Thanks alL!
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[18:56:16] <mcr-soho> you can follow two rooms at once, once you figure out how to turn the audio on/off.
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[18:56:51] <JoeHallCDT> @meetecho: might want to close the session to protect sftcd's privacy
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[18:57:07] <Meetecho> doing that
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