IETF
saag
saag@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, July 24, 2014< ^ >
Dan York has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF89: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/saag/
Room Configuration
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[16:48:29] sftcd has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF89: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/90/agenda/saag/
[16:48:43] <Ben Kaduk> "You missed a spot."
[16:51:33] metricamerica joins the room
[16:52:19] <Ben Kaduk> sftcd: I don't think this is "SAAG at IETF89" anymore.
[16:52:43] <sftcd> @ben: change it, whatever:-)
[16:52:51] <sftcd> I did try but you don't see it?
[16:52:58] <sftcd> ah
[16:53:08] sftcd has set the subject to: SAAG at IETF90: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/90/agenda/saag/
[16:53:12] <sftcd> ta
[16:54:21] Tom Yu joins the room
[16:56:21] <ilari.liusvaara> Well, not as bad as one topic I saw that had wrong Working Group (not even in the same area). :-)
[17:00:11] mrex-ietf joins the room
[17:00:20] hosnieh joins the room
[17:01:06] Adam Montville joins the room
[17:01:11] <Ben Kaduk> It would be less worrisome if the audio stream started to be available a few minutes before the listed start time.  I.e., at the beginning of the day, the stream won't work until exactly 0900h, and I couldn't get it to work until just now at 1300h.
[17:01:16] <mrex-ietf> it seems that the audio stream for saag is not accessible.  Meetecho & webex haven't been planned for saag.  :-(
[17:01:27] satoru.kanno@jabber.org joins the room
[17:01:38] <Tom Yu> can't connect to the audio stream
[17:02:10] <Ben Kaduk> I have something that I think is the right audio stream, but no one has really said anything yet.
[17:02:15] Melinda Shore joins the room
[17:02:31] <Melinda Shore> I'm your friendly Jabber scribe
[17:02:44] <Ben Kaduk> Oh, whoops, that's my audio player being dumb and playing a different "file".
[17:02:53] <Melinda Shore> we're running through the working group reports
[17:04:15] <Melinda Shore> updates from related working groups
[17:04:42] <mrex-ietf> audio streams 2 and 3 are dead  -- Ben, which audio do you get?
[17:04:52] <Ben Kaduk> I get 4.
[17:04:59] <hosnieh> no
[17:05:02] <hosnieh> I could connect
[17:05:12] <hosnieh> try it again
[17:05:19] <hosnieh> second time I also received error message
[17:05:25] wseltzer joins the room
[17:05:39] <Ben Kaduk> I can also get streams 1, 5, 6, 7, and 8.  Maybe it's just 2 and 3 that are busted?
[17:05:43] <Ben Kaduk> Did anyone send mail?
[17:06:29] <Melinda Shore> Are you able to get the stream frm this room
[17:06:32] <Melinda Shore> ?
[17:06:50] <Ben Kaduk> We are not able to get the stream for SAAG.
[17:07:07] <mrex-ietf> you room (per agenda) should be Canadian on Channel 2 and is dead (connection refused)
[17:07:23] jimsch1 joins the room
[17:07:25] Barry Leiba joins the room
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[17:07:34] Frederico A C Neves joins the room
[17:07:36] <sftcd> sending a mail to NOC about audio
[17:07:39] Juan-Pedro Cerezo Martin joins the room
[17:07:41] <Melinda Shore> Barry's submitting a ticket
[17:07:57] <ilari.liusvaara> For me, it is dead, error 404.
[17:07:57] <mrex-ietf> (actually, the error message from VLC is pretty unintelligible, I don't know the exact cause)
[17:07:59] <Ben Kaduk> Okay, I will cancel the mail I was starting to compose.
[17:08:08] yaron.sheffer joins the room
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[17:09:02] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
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[17:13:03] <derek> No sound?
[17:13:07] <Ben Kaduk> That's right.
[17:13:18] <Ben Kaduk> Supposedly Barry has/is filed a ticket.
[17:13:23] <derek> Okay..
[17:13:42] <Barry Leiba> Elves are working on it as we speak.
[17:13:59] obergmann joins the room
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[17:14:44] steffi joins the room
[17:15:07] <Melinda Shore> Opportunistic security discussion about to start
[17:16:10] <steffi> is the audio stream not working?
[17:16:19] <Tom Yu> still not working for me
[17:16:19] <Ben Kaduk> steffi: that's correct.
[17:18:14] <steffi> there is no meetecho available either
[17:18:47] <Ben Kaduk> Also correct.
[17:19:25] <steffi> :(
[17:19:32] <yaron.sheffer> Correct.
[17:19:49] <Barry Leiba> It's being worked on…. apparently with no solution yet.
[17:20:17] <mrex-ietf> in the worst case, the lack of audio streaming might even prevent the recording of this session
[17:20:48] B_Smith joins the room
[17:20:49] <sftcd> 2 people at audio desk as I type (not that that yet helps, sorry)
[17:22:00] <steffi> wasn't there a scribe in london?
[17:22:12] <B_Smith> chat add gtalk netext@jabber.ietf.org netext
[17:22:16] <Ben Kaduk> I have (very scratchy) audio
[17:22:27] <Melinda Shore> So you're no longer getting a 404?
[17:22:35] <Ben Kaduk> I think so.
[17:22:42] <mrex-ietf> yup, the buzzer from monday plenary is back
[17:22:44] <Ben Kaduk> iTunes is not exactly transparent about reporting errors.
[17:22:55] <Tom Yu> sounds like it's badly overdriven
[17:23:47] <yaron.sheffer> Same here. Audible but terrible quality.
[17:24:21] <steffi> I have connectivity but I can't understand a thing
[17:24:40] <Ben Kaduk> Some speakers are harder to understand than others.  Is this EKR?
[17:24:49] <Melinda Shore> Yes
[17:24:51] <Tom Yu> this is painful
[17:25:08] <steffi> correct
[17:25:17] <Ben Kaduk> I wonder if getting people to move farther away from the mic would help.
[17:25:32] <Melinda Shore> Curvacious TLS
[17:25:36] <Ben Kaduk> Kathleen sounds fine, it seems.
[17:25:48] <Melinda Shore> How's Sean?
[17:26:02] <ilari.liusvaara> I can't make out a thing.
[17:26:12] Adam Montville leaves the room
[17:26:21] <sftcd> we'll try get speakers to use the podium mics after this bit
[17:26:23] <steffi> sound like a buzzing fly
[17:26:30] <mrex-ietf> the amplifier levels are completely out of whack.  If someone talks with distance to the mike, then it sounds OK
[17:26:54] <sftcd> in room audio is fine
[17:27:24] <Tom Yu> are there slides for the EC stuff?
[17:27:30] <Melinda Shore> No.
[17:28:02] <Ben Kaduk> Stephen is mostly understandable.
[17:28:11] <sftcd> that's pretty unusual actually:-)
[17:28:16] <Ben Kaduk> Haha :)
[17:28:32] <Barry Leiba> They're still working on the audio.
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[17:29:30] <JeffH> why is sean in the balcony ??
[17:29:55] <sftcd> because we could
[17:30:01] Bodo Moeller joins the room
[17:30:22] <ddp> anyone have a better link to the audio stream?
[17:31:21] <Barry Leiba> Better link?  Or better audio?
[17:31:29] <ddp> better audio
[17:31:47] <ddp> oh, a word, i understood one word!
[17:31:57] <ddp> sigh
[17:32:15] <Barry Leiba> Once again: they're still working on it.
[17:33:00] <JeffH> so is Sean exercising physical security ?
[17:33:53] <m&m> Yes. Yes he is.
[17:34:09] <steffi> kathleen sounds good
[17:34:12] <yaron.sheffer> Kathleen is loud and clear. Please share her mic for the presentations.
[17:34:17] <sftcd> ack
[17:34:46] <Ben Kaduk> I would say that Kathleen is quiet and clear, which is perhaps indicative of some of the problem with the other sources...
[17:36:01] <Ben Kaduk> (not too quiet, just relatively quiet)
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[17:39:08] <Juan-Pedro Cerezo Martin> or maybe try to tell the guy at the mixer to lower the level of the aux line that sends the mixed audio to the A/D encoder
[17:39:23] <Juan-Pedro Cerezo Martin> the whole output is overdriven
[17:40:23] <Tom Yu> i'm hearing a lot of reverb. is it also there in the room?
[17:40:44] <Melinda Shore> The sound in the room is good.
[17:40:48] <semery> Not in room.  I'll check with the technician.
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[17:41:09] <sftcd> thanks shawn
[17:41:14] Adam Montville joins the room
[17:41:21] <derek> please do -- it sounds like the guy is eating the mic
[17:41:36] <sftcd> nope that's tim and he's fine with mic
[17:41:45] <sftcd> tim wouldn't yell:-)
[17:42:25] <derek> Kathleen sounds great
[17:42:40] <sftcd> I'll get Dave and PHB to use that
[17:42:41] <derek> Whoever is speaking now is clipping
[17:43:45] <semery> The IETF tech can not touch the hotel's audio equipment, so we're are waiting for the hotel audio tech to come in.  Sorry.
[17:44:02] jimsch1 joins the room
[17:44:16] <derek> Ah, getting better
[17:44:18] <semery> He's here tending to the equipment now.
[17:44:18] <Ben Kaduk> But are random IETF participants so constrained?
[17:44:26] <sftcd> no
[17:44:30] <derek> I can almost make out Mr Kent now
[17:44:53] <semery> Can you hear Tim?
[17:45:08] <derek> Nope
[17:45:15] <derek> Clipping
[17:45:17] <ddp> we can tell it *is* Tim
[17:45:18] <Tom Yu> Tim started out a bit more intelligible, but got worse as he got closer to the mic i think
[17:45:21] <Melinda Shore> Next up, Dave Crocker on email privacy.
[17:45:24] <Melinda Shore> There are slides
[17:46:37] <Melinda Shore> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-saag-2.pdf
[17:46:44] <semery> Did you hear Sean w/o problems?
[17:46:44] <derek> I can hear Mr Crocker
[17:46:57] <derek> No, did not hear Sean well
[17:46:59] <sftcd> we bumped me and K down a few seats
[17:47:03] <semery> He is using the non-wireless mic up front.
[17:47:04] <mrex-ietf> keep Dave away from the Mike -- I can understand him right now
[17:47:16] <semery> The pattern is the wireless mics.
[17:47:23] <derek> Yep, intelligible now!
[17:47:35] Dan York joins the room
[17:47:37] <Melinda Shore> Dave is using a wired mike
[17:48:10] <Melinda Shore> Slide 2 (considerations for future work)
[17:48:28] <sftcd> was my mic audible earlier or just Kathleen's?
[17:49:37] <ddp> before right now, only Kathleeen was understandable
[17:49:54] Adam Montville leaves the room
[17:50:08] <Ben Kaduk> I think Kathleen's was more audible.  It may be that they were comparable mics, but Stephen was talking more loudly or similar.
[17:50:31] <sftcd> or distance from the mic? (Katheen)
[17:50:32] <Melinda Shore> slides 3 & 4
[17:51:34] Samuel Weiler joins the room
[17:52:33] <derek> sftcd: can mostly hear you now, but you're still clipping a *little* bit.
[17:54:05] <Melinda Shore> slide 5
[17:54:51] <Melinda Shore> slide 6
[18:00:06] <mrex-ietf> DANE is oriented at (online) communication ports.  Your  _mailbox._at.example.com   would be independent from transport and communication endpoints
[18:02:08] <Ben Kaduk> You would have other private keys for "role" email addresses.
[18:02:38] <mrex-ietf> you also have to make sure your keys end up in your mail backups in some form, or you encrypted mail backups will become pretty useless
[18:02:43] <Melinda Shore> slide 7
[18:02:58] <Ben Kaduk> Isn't this slide 8?
[18:03:07] <Samuel Weiler> mrex: you want that at the mic?
[18:03:08] Sean Turner joins the room
[18:03:31] <Melinda Shore> My mistake, slide 8
[18:03:32] Erik Nygren joins the room
[18:03:43] <Ben Kaduk> Thanks.
[18:03:45] <sftcd> mic line will open after Phil's talk
[18:03:51] SM joins the room
[18:04:08] <Samuel Weiler> sftcd: isn't the etherpad already open?
[18:04:27] <sftcd> have fun with that, our mic line experiment is sean-in-a-balcony:-)
[18:04:44] <semery> Eww, could we, could we?
[18:05:35] <Sean Turner> come on up
[18:06:01] <Samuel Weiler> you want us to write on Sean(-in-a-balcony)?
[18:06:12] <sftcd> sure, why not
[18:08:46] <mrex-ietf> the MTA may need access to MAIL FROM: (aka the return path) for returning/bouncing mails after a timeout for an potentially temporary unavailability
[18:08:52] <Sean Turner> count me in the queue
[18:08:56] <Melinda Shore> Up next, Phill
[18:09:25] <Ben Kaduk> Ow ow ow too loud
[18:09:27] <derek> CLIPPP
[18:09:28] <Melinda Shore> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-saag-3.pdf
[18:09:33] <semery> mrex: would you liked that mic'ed in the queue?
[18:09:48] <ddp> and one user
[18:09:59] <semery> Is that better?
[18:10:14] <ddp> better not tell him about PEM, eh?
[18:10:30] <Ben Kaduk> Better, but still not "good".
[18:11:28] <jimsch1> Better these days would be JSON based wouldn't it?
[18:11:38] <ddp> oh god
[18:11:43] Adam Montville joins the room
[18:11:50] <sftcd> og god wrt audio or content?
[18:11:50] <Ben Kaduk> Is that "better" , or just "cool"?
[18:12:32] <jimsch1> I think everyone is telling me that it is "better" for some really weird measure of better
[18:12:41] <mrex-ietf> SSH *never* had any adoption problems, because it model of establishing trust meets what humans have been doing for milleniums
[18:15:03] <mrex-ietf> Of how many of your friends, acquaintances, colleagues and even business partners have you seen a formal governmentally-issued picture-ID.  For those where you did, what kind of "reliable" check for authenticity of this ID did you employ?
[18:16:32] <derek> I've seen my wife's passport.
[18:16:36] <Tom Yu> mrex-ietf: i think the govt-ID verification is a ritual that evolved around PGP, but is not intrinsic to PGP
[18:17:57] <ddp> both?  that's a good one
[18:18:19] <ddp> rc4 of course
[18:19:02] <ddp> collect all seven
[18:19:32] <derek> clipping.. who is this?
[18:19:40] <Samuel Weiler> michael richardson
[18:20:17] <mrex-ietf> The PGP key signing parties have a _different_ purpose: building a "web of trust", so that you get at least some amount of confidence in identity for folks which you've maybe never seen before and are not necessarily going to get know today
[18:21:21] <ddp> oh, i'm sure we can drag it out longer than that
[18:22:40] <Dan York> Is this the point where we point out that RFC 6698 for DANE was only approved in August 2012? - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6698
[18:23:07] Dan Timpson joins the room
[18:23:35] <Dan York> For a protocol that's only been out for 2 years there's a good bit of interest. ;-)
[18:23:47] <ddp> :-)
[18:24:06] <Ben Kaduk> "JSON does not suck half as much as XML", strong endorsement there.
[18:24:14] <ddp> yup, blistering
[18:24:37] <Melinda Shore> Does anybody have questions or comments for the mike?
[18:24:46] <ddp> I know, let's add QR codes to PKIX  ;-)
[18:25:01] <Dan York> Ha!
[18:25:17] <Sean Turner> we already got jpegs ....
[18:26:05] ddp leaves the room
[18:26:52] <semery> How are the wireless mikes working now?
[18:27:13] <derek> I can hear Mr Kent quite fine
[18:28:29] <derek> this speaker is clipping
[18:28:41] <Samuel Weiler> Doug Otis?  or EKR?
[18:28:43] <derek> EKR is clipping too
[18:28:50] <derek> (both)
[18:29:03] <Samuel Weiler> is crocker clipping?
[18:30:35] <Samuel Weiler> msg sent to mtd@ietf.
[18:31:00] <derek> yes
[18:32:15] <Samuel Weiler> audio levels in the room are a bit off, too.  I wonder if they'd care if we started playing with the mixers…
[18:32:47] <wseltzer> If you trust the server, you also trust anyone who can serve a legal order on the server.
[18:33:18] <Samuel Weiler> wseltzer:  there's probably a more effective way to make that point (e.g. by turning it around)
[18:34:09] <wseltzer> sam, yes :)
[18:34:58] <Dan Timpson> what was the github address?
[18:35:47] <Melinda Shore> http://sourceforge.net/projects/prismproof/
[18:35:58] <SM> The first contact problem
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[18:45:04] <Melinda Shore> Open mike.
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