IETF
suit
suit@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, November 13, 2017< ^ >
Room Configuration
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[07:48:31] <Cullen Jennings> On Meecheco I am getting
[07:48:33] <Cullen Jennings> java.lang.NullPointerException
    com.meetecho.ajax.AjaXMPP.doPost(AjaXMPP.java:2181)
    com.meetecho.ajax.AjaXMPP.doGet(AjaXMPP.java:517)
    javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:624)
    javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:731)
    org.apache.tomcat.websocket.server.WsFilter.doFilter(WsFilter.java:52)
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[07:49:10] <mcr/soho> If you say meetecho, they will magically appear.
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[07:49:44] <Suhas Nandakumar> I am hearing white noise of some sort
[07:49:55] <meetecho> Cullen Jennings: still getting that exception or is it working now?
[07:50:09] <Cullen Jennings_2000> Got in on a separate browser.
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[07:53:08] <Stephen Banghart> Currently working through some technical issues with our A/V equipment in the room.
[07:53:59] <Stephen Banghart> Once we get started please prefix anything you'd like read aloud with "mic:" so I know what should be read aloud
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[08:01:41] <Suhas Nandakumar> not seeing the slides yet
[08:01:49] <Suhas Nandakumar> thanks
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[08:02:18] <meetecho> Suhas Nandakumar: they should be up now
[08:02:24] <meetecho> nope, gone again...
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[08:03:24] <Cullen Jennings_2000> nope
[08:03:25] <Fabio Utzig> yes
[08:03:26] <Michael Richardson> they are now!
[08:03:27] <Suhas Nandakumar> see it now
[08:03:38] <Suzanne> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-suit-chairs-slides/ to follow along at home ;)
[08:03:40] <Cullen Jennings_2000> oh, they showed up
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[08:05:57] fenton has set the subject to: suit BOF: IETF 100
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[08:21:26] <Martin Thomson> my suggestion: "updating software other than firmware are out of scope."
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[08:22:12] <Stephen Banghart> Martin, would you like that read at mic?
[08:22:15] <Martin Thomson> I don't see any need to prohibit updating of other things.  Sure, there are probably better mechanisms for that, but I wouldn't worry about prohibiting that.
[08:22:22] <Martin Thomson> Stepphen, I'm in the room, it's ok
[08:22:28] <Stephen Banghart> (Y)
[08:23:04] <Martin Thomson> text in jabber might be more accessible
[08:23:29] <kathleen.moriarty> The chairs are noting suggestions live though...
[08:24:01] <Suhas Nandakumar> audio is unmuted ..
[08:24:21] <Martin Thomson> Kathleen, this is a tweak only, not worth spending time in the room on
[08:24:45] <kathleen.moriarty> OK, it's in review for a few more weeks.
[08:25:07] <Martin Thomson> It's not like the charter can be approved in its current form, given Paul's suggestion regarding 4108, which seemed to be well supported
[08:25:23] <kathleen.moriarty> No, it'll be updated according to agreement
[08:25:38] <Cullen Jennings_2000> Wow - I hope that was not the end of charter discussion as it seems like there wer many more issues raised before people got cut off
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[08:25:53] <Martin Thomson> I hope we aren't doing live editing
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[08:26:09] <Martin Thomson> cullen jennings Do you want me to interrupt?
[08:26:14] <kathleen.moriarty> live editing in a text window, not the datatracker
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[08:28:26] <kathleen.moriarty> Suhas, will you be posting your charter comments to be relayed?
[08:28:30] <Suhas Nandakumar> mic: why are we restricting to one encoding format once we agree on data format
[08:28:36] <Cullen Jennings> @martin - let me see if we are going back to the charter after this
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[08:29:10] <Stephen Banghart> @suhas Is that a charter comment or for the current slides?
[08:29:30] <Martin Thomson> Suhas: that is one question I share- it is not resolved clearly (I disagree with you, but I want to ensure that we answer the question)
[08:29:33] <kathleen.moriarty> We are to finish the queue and there was other time left for it, I believe.  All comments significant enough, should be discussed.
[08:29:40] <Suhas Nandakumar> @stephen its charter comment ..
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[08:30:26] <Martin Thomson> I think that there are clarifications to the charter that might be made based on the conclusion to the transport question
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[08:32:07] <Suhas Nandakumar> @mic: charter question. would like to add text on architecture  for how to find the server to get the firmware and how to download it
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[08:32:32] <Suhas Nandakumar> still working on my device for A/V .. but trying to add questions in here .. Sorry for the delay in questions
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[08:36:30] <Stephen Banghart> @Suhas, I have noted your comments and will read them when we revisit charter
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[08:39:36] <Henk Birkholz> Yes, please revisit charter.
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[08:41:33] <Cullen Jennings_2000> mic: When we say class 1, what percentage of the system is used by bootloader? Should we be clear about that in charter
[08:41:48] <kathleen.moriarty> Cullen, do you want to get in queue?
[08:41:59] <Cullen Jennings_2000> Yes please that was to mic
[08:42:16] <kathleen.moriarty> I think we typed at the same time :-)
[08:42:25] <kathleen.moriarty> Stephen is at the mic line
[08:42:29] <Cullen Jennings_2000> I was in meetecho Q when we moved on to TEEP slide and seemed like no one could see the foks that are ther
[08:42:58] <kathleen.moriarty> I couldn't see that you were in that queue, would you prefer to talk live?
[08:43:14] <Cullen Jennings_2000> Glad to try live and if that fails we can fall back
[08:43:21] <kathleen.moriarty> ok
[08:43:22] <meetecho> Cullen Jennings: the queue seems up and running, a few participants have been granted the floor already
[08:43:32] <meetecho> I see you and Suhas in queue now
[08:43:44] <Henk Birkholz> Why is the focus suddenly so big on bootloader? Yes, there is multipart firmware. Bootloader is a part.
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[08:44:13] <Michael Richardson> @Henk, if it won't fit into the bootloader, then you can't upgrade the next part.
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[08:44:59] <Stephen Banghart> @Cullen I will read your comment, let me know if youd rather give it live
[08:45:02] <Henk Birkholz> Understood, but SUIT does not stop at updating bootloader, right?
[08:45:35] <Michael Richardson> @Henk, yes, but after you boot up your bigger brain, the code space factor matters less, and the bigger brain is more easily upgraded.
[08:45:37] <kathleen.moriarty> @Stephen, he's in queue, but it's hidden by Suhas's video
[08:45:38] <David Brown> Drafts suggest that the "bootloader" at least the first piece is immutable, and cannot be upgraded.
[08:45:46] <Cullen Jennings> I'm in Q for live so let me try that first
[08:46:38] <kathleen.moriarty> You're on video
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[08:46:59] <Cullen Jennings> someone in room give me hint on when to talk vs in room line
[08:47:22] <Emmanuel Baccelli> you'll be given the floor explicitly
[08:47:33] <Emmanuel Baccelli> (I guess)
[08:47:40] <kathleen.moriarty> I think Dave said you are after Jari
[08:48:30] <ted.h> Suhas, just to confirm your view on discovery—you want to name a discovery mechanism as an exemplar, but not to pick a one true method?
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[08:49:13] <Suhas Nandakumar> @ted.h .. I am open to discussion. I have one based on well-known in the soln draft submitted ..
[08:49:34] <Martin Thomson> .well-known is not the answer you were looking for
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[08:49:43] <ted.h> @Suhas I'm concerned that trying to pick a winner on that would consume a lot of working group energy without any real interop benefit.
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[08:50:26] <mcr/soho> @ted.h, you speak about a winning discovery mechanism (vs a winning encoding format).
[08:50:40] <kathleen.moriarty> You are hard to understand, breaking up a little
[08:50:47] <Martin Thomson> fluffy, you are breaking up badly
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[08:51:06] <Suhas Nandakumar> @cullen .. headset workd for me
[08:51:17] <kathleen.moriarty> much better
[08:51:18] <ted.h> @mcr discovery mechanism.  If one device uses method 1 and a different device uses method 2, there is no issue with the system working, because the two are not interoping with each other (but with the relevant servers)
[08:51:43] <ted.h> @mcr but trying to force them both onto the same one will consume wg cycles
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[08:51:50] <ted.h> s/force/encourage/
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[08:53:23] <mcr/soho> Cullen, if you have your cisco VPN on, you might want to try turning it off.
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[08:53:33] <David Brown> I agree with Cullen that class would be better defining size of bootloader not entire device. Although absolute size of bootloader would be better.
[08:53:41] <Toerless Eckert> cullen: disable your video maybe that leaves enough bandwidth for your audio. Headset did help already somewhat
[08:54:10] <Cullen Jennings> Not on VPN, all the meetech self tests said it would not work when I had VPN turned on
[08:54:57] <mcr/soho> some of issue is perhaps echo off walls in Singapore into your mic, but some of it was just lost packet audio which wasn't headset related at all.
[08:55:34] <fenton> cullen, your video was freezing so it seemed like something was constraining your BW.
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[08:56:38] <Cullen Jennings_2000> interesting - thanks
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[09:00:37] <mcr/soho> @Norkmark, we don't need to discover this.  The manufacturer knows what is going on, and can state it in the manifest.  
[09:01:40] <mcr/soho> who was at the mic?  +20 on him.
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[09:02:06] <Alissa Cooper> shaun cooley
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[09:04:00] <Suhas Nandakumar> mic: like to add a question mark against CMS, if not already added .. Similar to one raised by Paul
[09:04:09] <Martin Thomson> Class 1: Any laser or laser system containing a laser that cannot emit laser radiation at levels that are known to cause eye or skin injury during normal operation. This does not apply to service periods requiring access to Class 1 enclosures containing higher class lasers.
[09:04:43] <Martin Thomson> Suhas Nandakumar: that's the ? next to 4108 I think
[09:04:55] <Suhas Nandakumar> @martin .. that's right
[09:05:02] <Martin Thomson> so we already have that ?
[09:05:10] <Stephen Banghart> @Suhas, does that revolve your comment?
[09:05:18] <Stephen Banghart> Resolve*
[09:05:18] <Suhas Nandakumar> yes .. i do see it ...
[09:06:38] <Suhas Nandakumar> Hummm
[09:06:40] <Cullen Jennings_2000> hum for remove
[09:06:41] <Michael Richardson> remove all 4108. hum.
[09:06:49] <Emmanuel Baccelli> remove 4108 hum
[09:06:51] <David Brown> remove 4108 hum
[09:06:56] <Suhas Nandakumar> remove 4108 entirely
[09:07:27] <Suhas Nandakumar> Can we have previous hum from jabber counted too ?
[09:07:31] <Emmanuel Baccelli> but let's keep in the text that class 1 devices are in scope
[09:07:44] <Michael Richardson> what Carsten said.  
[09:07:49] <Emmanuel Baccelli> yup
[09:08:08] <Stephen Banghart> @Suhas Dave said that Removing 4108 Hum was the loudest, so we can consider the jabber hums counted
[09:08:26] <Martin Thomson> "The group will produce a solution that is suitable for application to a class 1 device [RFC7228], but will not aim to prevent its use with more capable devices."
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[09:10:12] <Suhas Nandakumar> no - hum
[09:10:17] <Cullen Jennings_2000> no - hum
[09:10:17] <David Brown> yes, avoid new transport mechanisms
[09:10:17] <Emmanuel Baccelli> no hum
[09:10:58] <Henk Birkholz> You forfot to hum about "the first" discovery...
[09:11:52] <Suhas Nandakumar> discovery of update servers in scope - hum
[09:12:19] <Suhas Nandakumar> no constraint - hum
[09:12:31] <Cullen Jennings_2000> hum - no constraint
[09:12:32] <Emmanuel Baccelli> no constraint - hum
[09:12:37] <Michael Richardson> the charter should constrain us to one, but should not tell us which one.
[09:12:38] <David Brown> no constraint hum
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[09:14:02] <Suhas Nandakumar> discovery of update servers in scope  - hum
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[09:14:23] <Cullen Jennings_2000> hum for se do need text
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[09:15:39] <Michael Richardson> we can't reinvent TCP, or SD-DNS (or CoAP or HTTP), but we can specify their use, and can decide which one to use.
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[09:16:30] <Cullen Jennings_2000> mic: proposed change" The archecture should provide a way to disocver the firmware server"
[09:16:32] <Suhas Nandakumar> agree with @michael .. we define how to use the existing ones
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[09:17:34] <Suhas Nandakumar> yes on cullen - hum
[09:17:48] <David Brown> I think Cullen's text is out of scope for charter - hum
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[09:20:34] <mcr/soho> Virtual Interim.
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[09:20:50] <Emmanuel Baccelli> yes for virtual interim
[09:20:53] <Suhas Nandakumar> yes
[09:20:53] <David Brown> yes, virtual, yes attend
[09:20:57] <mcr/soho> yes, will attend.
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[09:21:21] <mcr/soho> thank you chairs.
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[09:21:41] <Martin Thomson> I can guarantee non-attendance because I can be certain that it will be at a time that is hostile to people in this and adjacent time-zones
[09:21:44] <Emmanuel Baccelli> thanks to the chairs + Meetecho/jabber enablers ;)
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[09:22:31] <mcr/soho> hmm. all the time zones are adjacent.
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