IETF
trans
trans@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, July 23, 2015< ^ >
tomfitzhenry has set the subject to: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/agenda
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[15:37:25] Karen Seo joins the room
[15:37:31] Melinda Shore joins the room
[15:38:29] <Melinda Shore> We don't have audio yet.
[15:38:34] Antonio Araujo joins the room
[15:38:53] Ben Laurie joins the room
[15:38:57] Adam Eijdenberg joins the room
[15:38:58] Rob Stradling joins the room
[15:39:27] sftcd joins the room
[15:39:56] <sftcd> having some network issues
[15:39:59] <sftcd> in the room
[15:40:02] <Ben Laurie> hmm, cannot hear audio
[15:40:10] <sftcd> been reported here
[15:41:16] <sftcd> ipv6 is seems ok, v4 is being a bit sad, and maybe more
[15:41:30] Paul Lietar joins the room
[15:42:02] Antonio Araujo leaves the room
[15:42:04] <Rob Stradling> no audio here either
[15:42:28] <sftcd> yeah there's a biggish outage on site so I'm told
[15:42:35] <sftcd> eran presenting
[15:42:47] Karen Seo leaves the room
[15:42:50] Antonio Araujo joins the room
[15:43:03] Karen Seo joins the room
[15:43:26] <sftcd> now microphones are failing
[15:43:29] Paul Lietar leaves the room
[15:43:30] Paul Lietar joins the room
[15:43:33] <Ben Laurie> lol
[15:43:43] <Ben Laurie> still no sound, for the record
[15:43:51] <sftcd> that's a quiet record
[15:44:06] <sftcd> batteries being investigated
[15:44:17] <Rob Stradling> yay!  audio!
[15:44:20] <Melinda Shore> There we go.
[15:44:24] <Ben Laurie> aha, I had sound for a moment there :-)
[15:44:27] <Melinda Shore> And there we went.
[15:44:42] <Ben Laurie> yep, silence once more
[15:44:50] <Ben Laurie> cool
[15:44:55] <Ben Laurie> we appear to have sound
[15:45:03] <Melinda Shore> It's coming back sporadically.
[15:45:15] <Karen Seo> I'm not hearing anything.
[15:45:18] <Ben Laurie> I think his mic is off :-)
[15:45:28] <Ben Laurie> yes
[15:45:31] <Ben Laurie> it works
[15:45:39] <Ben Laurie> btw, if you want I can test I also have audio :-)
[15:45:48] <sftcd> eran is going to use the working mic
[15:46:47] <sftcd> AV folks arrive
[15:47:07] <Karen Seo> I'm not seeing any slides.
[15:47:26] <Ben Laurie> I see the slides - maybe you need to hit the presentation button?
[15:48:14] <sftcd> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-trans-3.pdf
[15:48:27] <sftcd> on slide 3
[15:48:57] <sftcd> I guess I'm the jabber scribe now, unless someone else in the room can/will?
[15:49:22] <sftcd> so if you want something said in the room, preface that with "mic:"
[15:49:30] <Karen Seo> This link worked.  Thank you.
[15:49:32] <Melinda Shore> Thank you!
[15:51:13] <sftcd> the other slides are at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/93/materials.html#trans
[15:51:41] <sftcd> slide 4
[15:54:21] <sftcd> slide 5
[15:56:32] <sftcd> slide 6
[15:56:51] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[15:56:59] <sftcd> slide 7
[15:58:06] <sftcd> slide 8
[15:58:51] <sftcd> steve kent @ mic - you hearing out there?
[15:59:14] <Rob Stradling> yes, loud and clear
[15:59:18] <sftcd> great
[16:01:49] <Karen Seo> audio has disappeared briefly a couple of times
[16:01:52] Meetecho joins the room
[16:02:26] <sftcd> I think the n/w is in the process of being repaired, I wouldn't be surprised if we have more fun
[16:02:49] Vittorio Palmisano joins the room
[16:03:05] Vittorio Palmisano leaves the room
[16:04:07] <sftcd> slide 10
[16:04:11] <Karen Seo> Thank you.
[16:04:11] <Ben Laurie> +1 to immutable metadata
[16:04:12] <sftcd> sorry slide 9
[16:04:46] <sftcd> reminder: if you want something said in the room, preface that with "mic:"
[16:04:46] Paolo Saviano joins the room
[16:04:49] Ben Kaduk joins the room
[16:05:03] Paolo Saviano leaves the room
[16:05:48] Robin Wilton joins the room
[16:07:16] <Ben Laurie> mic: doesn't matter if the log returns less entries, because the client should ask fior all the entries it first thought of
[16:08:08] <sftcd> slide 10
[16:10:08] <sftcd> next pressie steve kent
[16:10:13] <Robin Wilton> Steve Kent presenting
[16:10:25] <sftcd> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-trans-0.pdf
[16:10:26] <sftcd> slide 1
[16:10:26] <Robin Wilton> (on attack model)
[16:11:09] <sftcd> slide 2
[16:11:51] Carl Mehner joins the room
[16:13:19] <Ben Laurie> (when we get to Q&A) mic: I agree with Steve's arguments for an architecture document
[16:13:43] <Robin Wilton> ack
[16:15:18] <Robin Wilton> Slide 3
[16:15:32] <Robin Wilton> (Semantic mis-issuance)
[16:16:25] <Robin Wilton> Slide 4 - Syntactic mis-issuance
[16:17:04] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
[16:17:29] Lorenzo Miniero leaves the room
[16:18:52] <Robin Wilton> DKG at the mic
[16:19:19] <Ben Laurie> apparently that's dkg, not DKG
[16:19:37] <Robin Wilton> oops. I stand corrected  - thank you, Ben!
[16:19:55] <Ben Laurie> mic: also, intent of cert is somewhat irrelevant - if I can use it for X, then its a cert for X, regardless of intent
[16:20:05] <Robin Wilton> ack
[16:21:27] <Robin Wilton> @ben will come back to your [agreement with Steve] comment in due course..;.
[16:21:44] <Ben Laurie> np :-)
[16:22:17] <Robin Wilton> Slide 5 (CT beneficiaries)
[16:22:28] <Robin Wilton> Slide 6 Herd immunity
[16:22:37] <Robin Wilton> dkg at the mic in lowercase
[16:23:05] <sftcd> at the MIC
[16:23:25] <Ben Kaduk> which message integrity code?
[16:23:45] <sftcd> see issue#78
[16:24:19] Carl Mehner leaves the room
[16:24:57] <Robin Wilton> Slide 7 Monitors
[16:24:59] Rob Percival joins the room
[16:25:15] <Robin Wilton> Link to Issue#78: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/78
[16:25:41] Antonio Araujo leaves the room
[16:28:05] <Robin Wilton> Slide 8 Attack Taxonomy
[16:28:43] <Robin Wilton> Bryan Ford at the mic/MIC
[16:32:29] metricamerica joins the room
[16:33:04] <Robin Wilton> Slide 9 - Role of Auditing
[16:34:13] <Robin Wilton> Slide 10 - Section 4 Topics
[16:35:01] <Robin Wilton> Slide 11 - Auditing Challenges
[16:37:04] <Robin Wilton> Slide 12 - Going Forward
[16:37:50] <Robin Wilton> Slide 13 - Egret!
[16:38:14] <Ben Laurie> mic: me, too
[16:38:20] <Ben Laurie> plus my previous comment :-)
[16:38:55] Steve Olshansky joins the room
[16:39:14] <Robin Wilton> ack
[16:39:37] <Robin Wilton> Linus Nordberg at the mic
[16:39:55] <Robin Wilton> @ben - Steve reeled visibly, but is v pleased
[16:40:04] <Ben Laurie> :-)
[16:40:15] <Robin Wilton> Next presentation - dkg on gossip
[16:40:27] sftcd joins the room
[16:40:30] <Robin Wilton> Link to the draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-linus-trans-gossip-ct-02
[16:40:31] sftcd leaves the room
[16:40:51] <Robin Wilton> Slide 2 - and this is going to be interesting: no title or slide number !!
[16:41:05] <Ben Laurie> just don't lose count!
[16:41:18] <Robin Wilton> (bullets are why, how, changes in -02, and working group adoption)
[16:41:32] <Robin Wilton> @ben <ulp>
[16:41:54] <Ben Laurie> btw, the button to push in the meetecho client is the guy at a podium, leftmost  of the four things at the right in the blue bar
[16:42:33] <Ben Kaduk> Yeah, the meetecho experience seems to be much nicer than trying to use an independent jabber client and follow along with the slides by hand
[16:43:14] <Robin Wilton> ok - will see if I can launch a meetecho session as well; was wary of doing so earlier, because of network issues
[16:43:53] <Robin Wilton> Slide 2 Cert Transparency; (detect CA misbehavior)
[16:44:05] <Ben Laurie> slide 3, I believe :-)
[16:44:10] <Robin Wilton> argh
[16:44:39] <Robin Wilton> Slide 4 - same graphic, with an Attack connector
[16:44:45] <Robin Wilton> Jeff Hodges at mic
[16:45:06] <Robin Wilton> Bryan Ford at mic
[16:45:57] <Robin Wilton> Eran Messari at mic
[16:46:05] <Robin Wilton> *Messeri
[16:46:32] <Robin Wilton> Slide 5 - same graphic, with Gossip text
[16:46:49] <Robin Wilton> Slice 6 - SCT feedback
[16:48:36] Robin Wilton_6652 joins the room
[16:50:02] <Robin Wilton> @ben - ok, so what happens if I push that button in meetecho?
[16:50:12] <Robin Wilton> Slide 7 - STH Pollination
[16:50:28] <Ben Kaduk> you get a stream of the presentation video as well as the speaker
[16:50:38] <Robin Wilton_6652> ah, ok, thx
[16:51:04] <Robin Wilton> (as Ben K surmised, I was just using a plain jabber client)
[16:52:06] <Robin Wilton> Slide 8 - Trusted Auditor
[16:52:35] Steve Olshansky leaves the room
[16:53:01] <Robin Wilton_6652> Paul van Brouwershaven at the mic
[16:54:08] <Ben Laurie> he forgot to mention profitable
[16:54:10] <Ben Laurie> :-)
[16:54:17] <Robin Wilton_6652> lol
[16:55:09] <Robin Wilton_6652> (Linus, from the floor... "And log"
[16:56:22] <Robin Wilton_6652> Paul W proposed taking this to the list
[16:56:25] <Robin Wilton_6652> End of slides
[16:56:38] <Robin Wilton_6652> Bryan Ford at the mic
[16:57:26] <Robin Wilton_6652> Next presentation will be CT for Binary Codes
[16:57:30] <Ben Laurie> mic: it would be nice if servers could server inclusion proofs if they felt like it
[16:57:32] <Robin Wilton_6652> Link to the draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-trans-ct-binary-codes-02
[16:57:38] <Robin Wilton_6652> @ban ack
[16:57:43] <Robin Wilton_6652> *@ben
[16:58:04] <Ben Laurie> mic: on privacy, we (Google) will soon propose an experimental DNS based inclusion proof protocol
[16:58:18] <Rob Stradling> nice :-)
[16:58:18] <Robin Wilton_6652> ack - am in the line
[16:58:34] <Ben Laurie> btw, I mean servers could _serve_ obviously
[16:59:07] <Rob Stradling> and we plan to do that in 6962-bis TRAC ticket 10
[17:00:09] <Robin Wilton_6652> @rob - for the mic?
[17:00:47] <Robin Wilton_6652> We're on slide n of the CT Binaries presentation: Changes since IETF91 (1)
[17:01:13] <Robin Wilton_6652> (at least these slides have a title ;^)  )
[17:02:05] <Robin Wilton_6652> Slide n+1 : Changes since IETF91 (2)
[17:02:40] <Robin Wilton_6652> Slide n+2 : Changes since IETF91(3)
[17:02:56] <Robin Wilton_6652> PHB at the mic
[17:03:10] <Robin Wilton_6652> (PHB is Philip Hallam Baker)
[17:03:15] <Ben Laurie> luckily, the protocol proposed does not use asn.1 (mic if you feel like it)
[17:03:36] <Ben Laurie> oh, except maybe CMS :-)
[17:04:03] <Robin Wilton_6652> Petr Spacek at the mic
[17:04:16] <Ben Kaduk> (when we get to q&a) mic: I am also interested, as a software user, in knowing that I am using the same bits as "everyone else" for cases when the software is not signed at all (apparently such as current builds of perl for windows 7).  That, of course, does not necessarily need to be this work.
[17:04:26] <Robin Wilton_6652> @ben K - ack
[17:05:01] <Ben Laurie> Ben K for the record, we agree this is a goal for BT
[17:05:01] <Robin Wilton_6652> *Petr Špaček
[17:05:09] <Robin Wilton_6652> BT?
[17:05:25] <Ben Laurie> binary transparency
[17:05:25] <Ben Kaduk> Oh, so we don't need Robin to channel that comment, then?
[17:05:27] <Robin Wilton_6652> @Ben did you mean CT
[17:05:41] <Robin Wilton_6652> @ben L ok - thx
[17:06:06] <Ben Laurie> tho to be fair, Ben K, that is a slightly different problem
[17:06:16] <Ben Laurie> and subject to Sybil attacks
[17:06:23] <Ben Laurie> which we still have no great answer to
[17:06:56] <Ben Laurie> probably what you really want to know is you are running what your friends, and their friends, etc, are running
[17:07:04] <Robin Wilton> Nice neologism: "to infectively encompass"
[17:07:05] <sftcd> fwiw, there's only 4 minutes left and free beer so your "mic:" opportunities may be limited
[17:07:17] <Ben Kaduk> Ben  L: yeah, there's not a great solution, but we ought to be able to do better than the current situation
[17:07:18] <Ben Laurie> I want the free beer!
[17:07:27] <sftcd> come to the meeting dude
[17:08:16] <Ben Laurie> I guess I'll have to settl for the non-free beer I already have in my hand
[17:08:16] <Robin Wilton> @ben K hope I relayed that ok.
[17:08:26] <Ben Kaduk> Robin: that was great; thank you!
[17:08:27] <Ben Laurie> and yes, sorry about that, was planning to but last minute stuff got in the way
[17:08:42] <Robin Wilton_6652> Next presentation: Rich Salz
[17:08:55] <sftcd> @BenL: yeah understood - it happens
[17:08:57] <Robin Wilton_6652> Slide 2 - "... not all" the certs
[17:09:17] <Ben Laurie> btw, who is sftcd?
[17:09:27] <sftcd> secret
[17:09:41] <Robin Wilton_6652> dkg at the mic
[17:09:53] <Robin Wilton_6652> @ben I could inappropriately disclose... ... for a fee
[17:10:03] <Robin Wilton_6652> My rates are surprisingly reasonable.
[17:10:08] <Ben Laurie> beer next time we meet? :-)
[17:10:09] <sftcd> sftcd == Stephen Farrell
[17:10:10] <Ben Kaduk> a fee measured in beer?
[17:10:15] <Rob Stradling> in the interest of transparency...Stephen Farrell, Trinity College Dublin, I presume
[17:10:17] <Rob Stradling> :-)
[17:10:20] <Robin Wilton_6652> PHB at the mic
[17:10:33] <Robin Wilton_6652> @sftcd dammit - you disrupted my business model
[17:10:38] <Rob Stradling> lol
[17:11:46] <Robin Wilton_6652> Eran Messeri at the mic
[17:12:18] <Robin Wilton_6652> (and, now, in the video feed :^)
[17:12:29] <Robin Wilton_6652> Paul van Brouwershaven at the mic
[17:13:15] <Robin Wilton_6652> Kareon O'Donoghue at the mic
[17:14:05] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[17:14:17] <Robin Wilton_6652> thanks all
[17:14:26] Ben Kaduk leaves the room
[17:14:34] Robin Wilton_6652 leaves the room
[17:14:39] <Ben Laurie> cool ... btw, roughtly how many in the room?
[17:14:56] Melinda Shore leaves the room
[17:14:57] <Robin Wilton> 30+
[17:15:02] <Ben Laurie> cool
[17:15:07] <Ben Laurie> ok, time for that non-free beer
[17:15:12] Ben Laurie leaves the room
[17:15:15] <Robin Wilton> ok - have a cold one
[17:15:16] metricamerica leaves the room
[17:15:18] Robin Wilton leaves the room
[17:15:48] Meetecho leaves the room
[17:16:00] Karen Seo leaves the room
[17:16:33] Rob Stradling leaves the room
[17:20:41] Rob Percival leaves the room
[17:20:53] Steve Olshansky joins the room
[17:24:05] Steve Olshansky leaves the room
[17:24:07] Paul Lietar leaves the room
[17:29:06] sftcd leaves the room
[17:41:32] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[17:55:09] Karen O'Donoghue leaves the room
[18:23:15] Adam Eijdenberg leaves the room
[20:05:08] sftcd joins the room
[20:05:17] sftcd leaves the room
[20:32:35] Steve Olshansky joins the room
[20:35:15] ilari.liusvaara leaves the room: offline
[21:00:37] Steve Olshansky leaves the room
[21:18:16] Steve Olshansky joins the room
[21:19:08] Steve Olshansky leaves the room
[22:14:07] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
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