IETF
weirds@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, August 1, 2013< ^ >
Peter Koch has set the subject to: WEIRDS WG at IETF-86
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[08:13:33] <Scott Hollenbeck> s/IETF-86/IETF-87/
[08:13:57] Scott Hollenbeck has set the subject to: WEIRDS WG at IETF-87
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[08:32:26] <Andrew Newton> Olaf starts meeting
[08:32:35] <Andrew Newton> Steve is minute taker
[08:32:37] <Andrew Newton> NOTE WELL
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[08:32:52] <JcK> Is it correct that there are no slides being used in this meeting?
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[08:33:07] <Andrew Newton> yes, there are
[08:33:15] <Andrew Newton> Murray says they are all uploaded
[08:33:55] <JcK> They weren't linked from the meeting materials page 10 minutes ago.  Will check again.
[08:34:01] <Andrew Newton> Murray is going over document status
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[08:34:33] <Andrew Newton> Pete is now discussing the object inventory draft and its status
[08:35:02] <Andrew Newton> JCK: looks like they materials are there: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/87/materials.html
[08:35:19] <Andrew Newton> Pete notes only 2 people commented on the mailing list
[08:35:30] <JcK> Up now.  Somehow just went up.  Mumble, but thanks.
[08:35:36] olaf joins the room
[08:35:36] <Andrew Newton> :)
[08:35:38] <olaf> Anybody here?
[08:35:47] <SM> Yes, Olaf
[08:35:49] <olaf> (ignore)
[08:35:57] <Andrew Newton> PR: would like to hear why this doc is useful to the process
[08:36:35] <Andrew Newton> PR: would like stronger support for the doc
[08:37:04] <Andrew Newton> Murray and PR are discussing the workload of drafts in the different streams
[08:37:31] <Andrew Newton> Olaf: no guarantee for publishing as ISC
[08:37:37] <SM> ISE
[08:37:45] <Andrew Newton> Andrew Sullivan: primary value was for this working group. fine to let it die
[08:37:49] <Andrew Newton> thanks SM
[08:37:59] <SM> Sorry for the nit, Andrew
[08:38:02] <Andrew Newton> Marc Blanchet: supports publishing
[08:38:32] <Andrew Newton> MB: seen much worse docs in terms of usefulness
[08:38:44] <Andrew Newton> MB: should be light work for the IESG
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[08:39:19] <Andrew Newton> Olaf: do you want show of hands for reviewers
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[08:40:20] <Andrew Newton> Linlin: this draft comes from the early stages of work in this wg
[08:40:38] <Andrew Newton> Linlin is summarizing the contents of the draft
[08:40:42] <JcK> Mic: To reinforce Olaf's point, there are obnoxious people on the ISE's editorial board who keep strongly suggesting that anything that comes out of an IETF WG should be published in the IETF Stream or not at all, unless the document argues against a position adopted by the WG.  They don't always win, but don't assume that such a request would go through without trouble.
[08:41:26] <Andrew Newton> olaf: this is a wg decision
[08:41:32] <Andrew Newton> PR: yes
[08:42:17] <Andrew Newton> scott h: describes where data model came from
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[08:42:42] <Andrew Newton> scott: strong support
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[08:43:30] <Andrew Newton> jck, just read your comment
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[08:43:43] <Andrew Newton> jim galvin: don't need this
[08:44:08] <Andrew Newton> ning kong: not only useful but also future for future RDAP implementers
[08:44:19] <Andrew Newton> ning: support
[08:45:25] <Andrew Newton> peter koch: confused. hearing stronger intent than just informing the wg, since it was said it would help implementers
[08:45:29] <Andrew Newton> PR: doc doesn't say that
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[08:45:38] <Andrew Newton> PR: show of hands for people who think it has value as a wg doc
[08:45:44] <Andrew Newton> few hands
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[08:45:49] <Andrew Newton> PR: strong objections
[08:45:51] <Andrew Newton> no hands
[08:46:13] <Andrew Newton> Marc Blanchet is up with bootstrapping
[08:46:18] <JcK> FWIW, I think this type of contextual documentation it has value.
[08:47:00] <Andrew Newton> page 2
[08:47:34] <Andrew Newton> page 3
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[08:49:08] <Andrew Newton> page 4
[08:49:09] <Andrew Newton> page 5
[08:50:34] <Andrew Newton> page 6
[08:51:09] <Andrew Newton> page 7
[08:51:30] <Andrew Newton> page 8
[08:52:08] <Andrew Newton> page 9
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[08:53:43] <Andrew Newton> page 10
[08:54:22] <Andrew Newton> page 11
[08:55:04] <Andrew Newton> page 12
[08:55:41] <Andrew Newton> page 13
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[08:56:48] <Andrew Newton> page 14
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[08:57:39] <Andrew Newton> page 15
[08:58:05] <Andrew Newton> page 16
[08:58:24] <Andrew Newton> page 17
[09:00:06] <Andrew Newton> andy: non IANA methods to do this
[09:00:30] <Andrew Newton> john levine: 5 rirs, thousands of tlds. rirs cooperate, tlds hate each other
[09:00:53] <resnick> (I believe the latter comment had a smiley. :-) )
[09:01:19] <Andrew Newton> levine: icann would have to change gtld contract for what can go in the zone
[09:02:05] <Andrew Newton> levine: numbers data doesn't change much, names changes a lot
[09:02:52] <Ning Kong> @John Levine +1
[09:03:07] <JcK> Pete. especially with some of the new group, I wouldn't count on it.  John L's comment is probably an over-generalization, but not incorrect.
[09:03:58] <Andrew Newton> kaveh: use the list or rirs instead of iana registry instead of bootstrapping
[09:04:14] <JcK> Some of them also have a relationship with ICANN that could be described as "very tense and distrustful" even if not as "hatred"
[09:04:19] <Andrew Newton> arturo: talking about rir extended stats file
[09:04:29] <resnick> Understood.
[09:04:56] <Andrew Newton> peter koch: names and numbers. easier solution for numbers. for names this is crazy
[09:05:09] <resnick> "a brave attempt to an interesting problem"
[09:05:19] <JcK> :-)
[09:05:46] <Andrew Newton> pk: mentions co.uk problem
[09:05:52] <Andrew Newton> mb: your proposal
[09:05:57] <Andrew Newton> pk: go back to the drawing board
[09:06:29] <Andrew Newton> pk: 5th time this type of problem has been attempted
[09:06:48] <Andrew Newton> pk: addressing 2 different aspects of IANA and mixing them. layer 9 issue
[09:07:13] <Andrew Newton> pk: all the IETF can do is specify protocol side of IANA, not the TLD side
[09:08:13] <Andrew Newton> ?: is bootstrap recursive between NIR and RIR
[09:08:58] <Andrew Newton> chris wright: supports third option of dns records in zone files
[09:09:23] <Andrew Newton> cw: ICANN staff will change the rules because they like RDAP
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[09:09:29] <Andrew Newton> cw: use simplified naptr
[09:09:37] <yone> ? was taiji
[09:09:42] <Andrew Newton> cw: don't need another interaction with IANA
[09:09:44] <Andrew Newton> yone, thanks
[09:11:00] <Andrew Newton> cw: .au has sld
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[09:12:06] <Andrew Newton> sandy murphy: registrations in this system relate to certification in sidr?
[09:12:15] <Andrew Newton> mb: not related
[09:12:41] <JcK> Assuming that "ICANN staff" can "change the rules" because they like something"  is a little dubious.  Recent efforts by staff to change rules in the AGP and prior attempts to change rules incorporated in existing registry contracts have gone over rather poorly.
[09:12:50] <Andrew Newton> olaf: as participant, just want to guarantee that people who are authoritative are well known
[09:13:23] <Andrew Newton> sm: interested to see how that happens
[09:13:52] <Andrew Newton> jim galvin: explicit preference for dns based solution. wants CNAME solution because wants as little interaction with IANA
[09:14:12] <SM> BTW, the names registry is not an IETF registry?
[09:14:43] <JcK> @sm: not since ICANN took over the IANA function.
[09:14:47] <Andrew Newton> allesandro :possible to do both
[09:14:54] <SM> Thanks, John
[09:15:01] <Andrew Newton> carlos is up with redirection
[09:15:27] <Andrew Newton> page 2
[09:15:29] <JcK> @sm: take a look at how the IANA home page is organized.
[09:15:35] <Andrew Newton> page 3
[09:15:59] <Andrew Newton> page 4
[09:16:30] <SM> John, I have.  It could be said that I received some insights about the why :-)
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[09:16:33] <Andrew Newton> page 5
[09:16:47] <Andrew Newton> page 6
[09:17:31] <Andrew Newton> page 7
[09:18:01] <Andrew Newton> page 8
[09:19:24] <john.levine> I don't understand what problem is being solved here.
[09:19:33] <Andrew Newton> page 9
[09:20:45] <Andrew Newton> leif: the ntp.org works because it is easy to determine if servers are good
[09:20:51] <Andrew Newton> carlos: yes, but out of scope for this doc
[09:21:51] <Andrew Newton> page 10
[09:22:11] <Andrew Newton> qs?
[09:22:41] <Andrew Newton> pk: does the ietf dictate running the server
[09:22:54] <Andrew Newton> pk: who runs them?
[09:23:26] <Andrew Newton> carlos: operator asks iana to be listed
[09:23:42] <Andrew Newton> pk: single target for rederiction
[09:23:52] <Andrew Newton> carlos: yes
[09:25:00] <Andrew Newton> byron: auth and signaling auth will be its own draft
[09:25:12] <Andrew Newton> byron: take into account in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa
[09:25:39] <Andrew Newton> jl: no redirection today between names servers
[09:25:52] <Andrew Newton> this topic has been cut off by the chairs due to time constraints
[09:25:57] <Andrew Newton> Ning is up with search
[09:25:58] <fneves> no redirection today between whois servers
[09:26:20] <john.levine> I understand how a pool among the RIRs could work, no hope for pool among TLDs for both technical and political reasons
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[09:26:24] <Andrew Newton> page 2
[09:26:42] <Andrew Newton> page 3
[09:27:46] <Andrew Newton> page 4
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[09:28:51] <Andrew Newton> page 5
[09:29:13] <Andrew Newton> page 6
[09:29:24] <Andrew Newton> page 7
[09:29:30] <Andrew Newton> page 8
[09:30:07] <Andrew Newton> qs and cs
[09:30:23] <Andrew Newton> eating into lunch, going over
[09:30:38] <Andrew Newton> mb: very basic search into main search in main docs and punt elsewhere
[09:30:45] <Andrew Newton> sh: +1 on mbs comment
[09:31:11] <Andrew Newton> sh: rdap_query is in wglc, so we need to incorporate
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[09:31:32] <Andrew Newton> murray: as participant, right way to go. as chair, procedural issues
[09:31:45] <Andrew Newton> olaf: any disagreement
[09:31:51] <Andrew Newton> no disagreement
[09:32:03] <Andrew Newton> cw: make search optional
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[09:32:43] <Andrew Newton> cw: use url templates
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[09:33:03] <Andrew Newton> ning: wants show of hands on syntax
[09:33:09] <Andrew Newton> murray: not appropriate right now
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[09:33:39] <Andrew Newton> murray: not hearing support for anything more complicated than basic search
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[09:33:47] <Andrew Newton> murray: think that direction we are going
[09:33:57] <Andrew Newton> murray: sound ok?
[09:34:00] <Andrew Newton> no response
[09:34:04] <Andrew Newton> olaf: gonna ask for more time
[09:34:10] <Andrew Newton> olaf: next session
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[09:34:25] <Andrew Newton> session ended
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[09:35:31] <JcK> Murray, would really like to see that summary before the LC windows close.
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[09:35:40] <JcK> thx
[09:36:39] <JcK> (i.e., three days ago) :-(
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