Re: Failing to convince an IETF WG

Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Wed, 26 September 2012 08:15 UTC

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:15:31 +0200
Message-ID: <CADnDZ88RaO5iWccJLXmjLNyhRFLsegxcpEyZJ3RTBWegfJdUQw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Failing to convince an IETF WG
From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
To: tglassey@earthlink.net
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Cc: ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
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Hi Todd,

I agree on your concerns but disagree with few issues, read my
disagree reason below:

Todd> Most of the vetting happens between parties offlist and no capture .....
AB> any organisation may have this behavior, but what matters is as
long as you are participating to : monitoring input, questioning,
suggesting, convincing others, writing I-Ds for the IETF, and making
up your decisions.

Todd>The IETF process of today is based on a 'consensus' process from
a membership of zero. That in and of itself flies in the face of
reason and ethical clarity. If there were formal members who came
together in a framework that the IETF administered it would be OK but
the process today is too easily abused.

AB> it is greate that we are not memebrs, we are participants, because
we become equal to any other, if memebrship then we will have a memebr
for 10 years and a memeber for 5 years (not measuring efforts but
time), but with the IETF we are just participants, the value or
difference between us is only how much you participate and author I-Ds
or IETF RFCs. There MAY be abuse to the consensus process only if the
CHAIR does not consider the healthy discussion related. So we need
something to avoid this.

Todd> When the journey is completed the standard will automatically
issue... no IESG no IAB pain no extra administrative overhead for a
bunch of lifer type standards junkies... Just simple and clean access
to the standard process.

AB> standard process is greate as we have IESG and WG reviews, first
because the authors will have to discuss through many things with the
focused/expert IETF group, then secondly the IESG have a more general
review which includes many other affects of the I-D with other WGs in
IETF. Yes painful but healthy.

Best Regards
Abdussalam Baryun
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Re: Failing to convince an IETF WG Abdussalam Baryun
Re: Failing to convince an IETF WG Abdussalam Baryun
Re: Failing to convince an IETF WG Rémi Després