IETF Operations and Administration Plenary
Wednesday, 22. March 2006
Notes taken by Mirjam Kuehne /ISOC
All presentations are here initially:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=65
(Will migrate to http://www.ietf.org/meetings/past.meetings.html)
1. Welcome, and introduction (Brian Carpenter)
- participants stats
- document actions
2. NOC and Host presentations (Nokia)
- NOC (Rich Osman)
- thanks to the roughly 20 volunteers
- when it was raining in the NOC on Sunday, it took only 20 minutes to
move it, mostly thanks to the volunteers
pretty low traffic stats (stats are up on the NOC information pages)
3. Presentation from the Host (Paul Murdock)
- thanks to Nokia from Brian Carpenter
4. IASA Report
- RFC Editor report (Bob Braden)
- IANA report (David Conrad)
- IASA Operations report: IAD (Ray Pelletier)
Ray stresses that the RFC editor output has really improved tremendously
and the backlog is reducing.
- IAOC General Report: IAOC Chair
Material will soon be moved to:
http://iaoc.ietf.org and http://trust.ietf.org
James Kempf: is it planned to put the RFC editor function as a
competitive RFP
Lucy: it will be an open RFP; there will be a request for interest first.
Leslie: has sent the plan as known so far to the ietf mailing list
last week.
5. Updating the Tao of the IETF (Susan Harris)
- draft-hoffman-taobis-05.txt
Comments wanted by the authors!
6. Nomcom report (Ralph Droms),
Changing of the guard, farewell from retiring ADs
Henrik Levkowetz: thinks we can fix the time schedule problems with
new tools
Charlie Perkins: are you collecting new nominations [for open IAB seat]?
Ralph: opened a new call, is now closed, will select input this week;
previous nominations will also be taken into account
Brian, Fred, Lynn, Leslie on stage
Fred Baker (ISOC BoT chair):
ISOC is the legal umbrella of the IETF
he feels very close to the IETF
there are people here who have been on the IESG for 10-15 years.
they have done a great service to the IETF
Leslie Daigle in the name of the entire IAB thanks those people who
are stepping down.
Lynn St.Amour (CEO of ISOC) hands plaques to Jonathan Rosenberg, Patrik
Fältström, Pekka Nikander, Pete Resnick and Bob Hinden as thanks for
their service on the IAB and to Bert Wijnen, Allison Mankin, Alex
Zinin, Scott Hollenbeck, Margaret Wasserman for their service on the
IESG.
Bert's and Allison's especially long service was recognized by Brian
Carpenter.
Alex Zinin reflects on the IETF in the last 4 years:
- more open and transparent organisation
- changed socially (more friendly, work more together, good sign)
- more operations-aware (more ops people coming to the IETF again)
- more innovative
- more international (yet, could even be more)
but also:
- more formal, more process oriented (too much time spent on
requirements and framework documents)
things learned during his time on the IESG:
- trust your first impressions
- you are a newbie - use that! (you bring the background from the community)
- don't allow politics to rule
- avoid bureacracy burn-out
- if it stalls - take it to the public (community can help!)
- remember who your real boss is (the community!)
- remember why you did it (often you might get some negative feedback;
you need to remember the motivation: keep your nom-com questionnaire)
- know when to stop
- Have fun! You learn a lot by doing it!
Bert Wijnen:
We are all here as individuals, also on the IESG
However, our employers sponsor us in all this.
he feels it is appropriate to thank his employer Lucent Technologies
for their suppport during all those years.
He also thanks the community for the help and support
Latterly he got a little worried about the IESG and the IETF (refers to
blocking people from mailing lists, a lot of the process issues etc.)
Bert sings a sad Dutch song.
Believes we should focus on the technology; on the work we are here
for! And at the same have some fun! (sings a more happy Dutch song :-)
7. Open Meeting - new IESG on stage
Open mic session:
Henning Schulzrinne: suggests to present some IESG statistics to the
community similar to the IANA and RFC queue stats
Brian: good idea. IESG actually had an efficiency retreat and set up
some targets. They should be presented.
Bill Fenner and Allison Mankin built tools to present them.
Chris Newman: utf-8 examples would be helpful for e-mail
Eric Rescorla: worried that we seem to be running out of food during
breakfast and breaks. Also, in this new schedule there is one break
without any food.
Ray Pelletier: admits that the numbers required were
underestimated. This has been adjusted today. It was a conscious
decision to have two breaks, one with and one without food. We will
include this in the survey and find out what people want.
Bert: suggests that people only take one cookie
Olaf Kolkman: believes that this organisation is in very good shape if
we spend that much time discussing the number of cookies during the
plenary.
Glen Zorn: recently submitted for the first time RFCs as individual
submission. He understood the process that the process to be to ask
the RFC editors to publish the document. The RFC editors then ask
expert reviewers to comment. After that the document plus comments are
sent back to the author and the IESG.
He had assumed the reviewers would be experts in the subject areas,
but apparently they were not. He complained about this in the WG. The
AD said that the IESG has no control over the expert review.
Since we are "auctioning off" the RFC (presumably to the lowest bidder?)
he is concerned about this in the future.
Brian: not necessarily something the IESG can fix.
Joyce Reynolds: perhaps we did not have the right person reviewing the
particular documents, but tried to make the best effort to find the
best reviewer on the review board (and they are all volunteers).
Glen volunteers to be on that board for that particular area of
expertise
John Klensin: there is a general issue here: suppose the RFC Editor sees a
doc related to an area that we do not have an expert on that review
board. maybe only the author is an expert in that field?
Sam Weiler: believes that having an effective and efficient path for
individual submissions is important for standards development
Sam Hartman: agrees that it is important for the IESG to monitor the
results. perhaps not important for the IESG to drive this, but can
assist the process.
Phil Hallam-Baker: more and more complexity is exposed to the
end-user. This has become apparent in the security area and
people there are beginning to get usability religion, but the
usability gap is everywhere. Doesn't know what we can do
to solve it, but we should raise the issue.
Sam Hartman: in his day job he is trying to make security usable. His
experience on how best to approach this is to make show cases and show
that it can be done and how. We don't only need to make sure security
mechanisms are complete, but also deployable.
Bill Fenner shows some IESG statistics:
- number of docs in the IESG queue (down to 200 now)
Bill will put the stats up on the IETF web site and send the pointer
to the ietf mailing list
Geoff Huston: related to Glen's comments:
suggests to use different terminology for individual and direct
submissions
Ross Callon: related to the complexity issue: to some
extend the entire IETF can make a difference there, its not just the
IESG. But if there are things that can be adn we are not doing, please
step forward and say sdo.
Harald Alvestrand: fixing usability problemns is not easy. 99% has
nothing to do with the protocols. We should not imagine that the
network will become simpler, because we try to make the protocols
simpler.
Pete Resnick: In the General Area meeting, Brian Carpenter pointed out
that he has many functions to fill (IETF chair, IESG chair, Heneral
Area Director). Pete believes for the IESG the most important role is
the IESG chair. Making sure the IESG works well is important and that
should be the role role of the chair. Other tasks the IETF chair has,
could maybe done by others. He suggests to shift priorities.
Brian: believes the external role of the IETF chair is also important,
but agrees that the IESG has to work.
19:30 end
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